path: root/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20090618.txt

Note: times are UTC+2

[20:59.03] *** Topic is 'Gentoo KDE | 18.6. @ 19:00 UTC = Meeting [http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0906meeting_topics.txt] | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 '
[20:59.03] *** Set by scarabeus on Thu Jun 18 20:40:41
[20:59.04] <Pesa> but if you listen, we'll have to kill you
[20:59.07] <ssuominen> it's custom the ops get to kick everyone except club members out when the meeting starts
[20:59.08] <Pesa> :P
[20:59.11] <ssuominen> be ready..
[20:59.33] <spatz> the meeting starts with a customery kick-banning
[20:59.54] *** BCMM (n=bcmm@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #gentoo-kde
[21:00.01] <spatz> and when the channel's empty, the discussion can begin
[21:00.35] <scarabeus> meeting starts ;]
[21:00.39] <scarabeus> !herd kde
[21:00.41] <Willikins> (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr
[21:00.42] <scarabeus> !herd qt
[21:00.42] <Willikins> scarabeus: (qt) carlo, hwoarang, tampakrap, yngwin
[21:00.44] <scarabeus> rollcall plz
[21:00.48] <yngwin> present
[21:01.16] <scarabeus> tampakrap will be one hour late so his topic is last on the list (FTR)
[21:01.32] <hwoarang> he might not make it
[21:01.35] <yngwin> carlo is absent as usual
[21:01.36] <hwoarang> called me 3 hours ago
[21:01.41] <hwoarang> hi btw
[21:02.06] <ayoy> and hi from here :)
[21:02.13] <hwoarang> haavardw: ping
[21:02.17] <Pesa> hi hwoarang, yngwin, ayoy
[21:02.20] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v ABCD
[21:02.22] <haavardw> hwoarang: pong, I'm here -)
[21:02.25] <hwoarang> goodie
[21:02.33] <scarabeus> your recruits? ;]
[21:02.34] <hwoarang> yngwin: ps, remember to set him up on qting-edge
[21:02.34] <Pesa> and hi haavardw
[21:02.41] <haavardw> hi all
[21:02.46] <scarabeus> i wander one thing
[21:02.50] <scarabeus> where the ... is the rest
[21:02.58] <spatz> howdy
[21:03.01] <hwoarang> aparently only qt is present
[21:03.08] <yngwin> heh
[21:03.21] <yngwin> ok, mask kde for removal; done
[21:03.26] <scarabeus> :D
[21:03.27] *** BCMM (n=bcmm@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:03.29] <hwoarang> you failed
[21:03.29] <Pesa> LOL
[21:03.31] <yngwin> :p
[21:03.37] <Pesa> we'll rule the world
[21:03.43] <hwoarang> meeting's over
[21:03.43] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: still arround i assume ;]
[21:03.51] <yngwin> actually i'm on kde 4.2.4 presently
[21:03.57] <hwoarang> woooooooooow
[21:04.03] <hwoarang> big step
[21:04.05] <yngwin> sabayon
[21:04.07] * alexxy here
[21:04.08] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v Sput
[21:04.22] *** hwoarang sets mode: +v ayoy
[21:04.24] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v lxnay|two
[21:04.29] *** hwoarang sets mode: +v haavardw
[21:04.42] *** hwoarang sets mode: +v Pesa
[21:04.43] *** yngwin sets mode: +v hwoarang
[21:04.51] <yngwin> ;)
[21:05.04] * scarabeus gives them 5 minutes, then he will be seriously unhappy
[21:05.11] <hwoarang> lol
[21:05.41] <hwoarang> who do we miss?
[21:05.43] <hwoarang> jorge?
[21:05.46] <hwoarang> tampakrap_: is off
[21:05.51] <hwoarang> bonsaikitten: slacking
[21:05.54] <yngwin> !herd kde
[21:05.56] <Willikins> yngwin: (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr
[21:05.57] <hwoarang> so pretty much everybody is here
[21:05.58] <reavertm> I almost forgot
[21:06.03] <scarabeus> dagger
[21:06.05] <scarabeus> reavertm: hello
[21:06.11] <reavertm> hi scarabeus
[21:07.03] <scarabeus> hwoarang: well specialy when we vote on first topic it would be damn nice to have majority of kde devs here
[21:07.17] <hwoarang> where is the agenda
[21:07.21] <scarabeus> topic
[21:07.27] <yngwin> so for those who hadnt noticed yet, we have two new qt recruits present: ayoy and haavardw
[21:07.36] *** Skim[ihz] (n=skim@skim.static.corbina.ru) has joined #gentoo-kde
[21:07.40] <scarabeus> yngwin: voice them
[21:07.50] <yngwin> hwoarang already did
[21:07.51] <spatz> they are voiced
[21:07.56] <scarabeus> ah
[21:07.57] <scarabeus> :]
[21:07.58] <hwoarang> of course
[21:07.59] <scarabeus> didnt look :]
[21:08.00] * haavardw can talk
[21:08.04] <hwoarang> bla bla
[21:08.10] <scarabeus> ayoy, haavardw: then welcome guys :]
[21:08.17] <ayoy> thank you!
[21:08.20] <ayoy> :)
[21:08.24] <haavardw> thanks -)
[21:08.33] <reavertm> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-desktop/msg_1ef792a71171a444d60ecb870a27e9f3.xml <- agenda
[21:08.41] <hwoarang> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0906meeting_topics.txt
[21:08.45] <hwoarang> just for the record
[21:09.02] <scarabeus> yes
[21:09.09] <hwoarang> scarabeus: we can change the topics order
[21:09.21] <scarabeus> hwoarang: yes we can
[21:09.23] <hwoarang> until kde devs are here
[21:09.34] <scarabeus> but kde3 is last or at least until tampakrap show up
[21:09.35] <hwoarang> we can start with qt topics if you like
[21:09.49] <hwoarang> ok scarabeus . but as I said he mgiht not make it
[21:09.49] <hwoarang> :/
[21:10.04] <scarabeus> then wired will be his replacement
[21:10.08] <hwoarang> sweet
[21:10.11] <hwoarang> where is he
[21:10.11] <scarabeus> he hopefully tracked him
[21:10.17] <hwoarang> wired: stupid boy
[21:10.29] <hwoarang> ping pong
[21:10.31] <spatz> i foresee that they blame the late announcement :p
[21:10.37] <wired> im here
[21:10.39] <hwoarang> excuses
[21:10.41] <wired> for some weird reason
[21:10.43] <wired> :p
[21:10.53] <hwoarang> ok shall we start with qt stuff then?
[21:11.11] <scarabeus> ok lets start with the qt3 apps first
[21:11.14] <reavertm> I'm fine with this
[21:11.18] <scarabeus> and ftr i am really not happy
[21:11.34] <hwoarang> slackers
[21:11.38] <hwoarang> ok what about the qt3 apps?
[21:11.49] <reavertm> btw, who's going to vote on kdeprefix?
[21:11.55] <hwoarang> kde project devs
[21:11.58] <hwoarang> i guess
[21:11.59] <scarabeus> reavertm: devs, including you
[21:12.09] * alexxy
[21:12.13] <scarabeus> reavertm: because you are one of few who can work on it
[21:12.30] * alexxy gonna vote for masking it
[21:12.33] <reavertm> well, last time it was not the case :P
[21:12.36] <scarabeus> hwoarang: so lets start with second topic now
[21:12.42] <hwoarang> ok
[21:12.53] <hwoarang> yngwin: ping pong
[21:13.09] <yngwin> kde3 is scheduled to be removed early next year, right?
[21:13.15] <scarabeus> yes
[21:13.20] <scarabeus> to some special overaly
[21:13.25] <scarabeus> so lets create one common overlay
[21:13.26] <yngwin> and kde3 is the biggest consumer of qt3
[21:13.29] <scarabeus> kde3 and qt3 crap
[21:13.36] <scarabeus> instead of just ripping it off
[21:13.40] <yngwin> i agree
[21:13.44] <scarabeus> and users can maintain themselves if they want
[21:13.44] <hwoarang> fine by me
[21:13.48] <scarabeus> otherwise we can throw it
[21:13.59] <reavertm> I wouldn't mind creating special overlay for qt4 and kde4 crap :P - to keep them away from main tree "{
[21:14.11] <hwoarang> oooh flamebite
[21:14.13] <spatz> what about kde3/qt3 apps not yet ported to kde4/qt4?
[21:14.14] <scarabeus> ok whom would update the kde team page reffering to the policy
[21:14.24] <scarabeus> spatz: problematic, but hell for maintaining
[21:14.25] <hwoarang> spatz: we dont care :)
[21:14.34] <scarabeus> yngwin: hwoarang ^
[21:14.38] <scarabeus> the update... :]
[21:14.40] <spatz> but some are widely used, like k3b
[21:14.42] <hwoarang> scarabeus: do we need to update it?
[21:14.47] <hwoarang> for what
[21:14.58] <spatz> by users
[21:15.06] <tanderson> ping :)
[21:15.08] <reavertm> some of them fail to build with libpcre[-static-libs]
[21:15.09] <yngwin> i would like to propose that we officially discourage further usage of qt3: dont introduce new qt3 based apps, prefer qt4 over qt3
[21:15.11] <Pesa> i hope k3b will see a stable release before the end of this year
[21:15.12] <scarabeus> hwoarang: just that other knows
[21:15.17] <hwoarang> spatz: k3b has already a kde4 version
[21:15.19] <hwoarang> _alpha
[21:15.28] <scarabeus> yngwin: good idea
[21:15.32] <hwoarang> yngwin: +1
[21:15.37] <scarabeus> spatz: in 6 months ;]
[21:15.49] <hwoarang> tanderson: ?
[21:15.57] <yngwin> i think qt3 useflag is enabled by desktop profile? that should be removed
[21:16.18] <scarabeus> also good idea, but since when
[21:16.21] <tanderson> Any objections to me patching a kde 3 ebuild with fixes for the .desktop file ?
[21:16.27] <scarabeus> tanderson: enjoy
[21:16.28] <tanderson> or JustDoIt ? :)
[21:16.37] <scarabeus> tanderson: open kde.gentoo.org
[21:16.42] <scarabeus> tanderson: search for CODE file
[21:16.45] <scarabeus> tanderson: read it
[21:16.48] <scarabeus> tanderson: answer is there
[21:16.59] * bonsaikitten present
[21:17.03] <scarabeus> yngwin: aka when we switch the discouraging of qt3 useflag
[21:17.17] <scarabeus> it can be even now but apps will be gone in the feb of 2010
[21:17.21] <yngwin> i'd say immediately
[21:17.33] <hwoarang> still we need to make the transission smooth
[21:17.38] <tanderson> scarabeus: aah ok
[21:17.40] <hwoarang> i failed on spelling
[21:17.41] <Skim[ihz]> hmmm
[21:17.51] <tanderson> scarabeus: oh, did I interrupt your meeting?
[21:17.52] <hwoarang> so as yngwin said , immediately
[21:17.57] <scarabeus> tanderson: smart boy
[21:18.03] *** dipogon (n=dipogon@84.249.84.164) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:18.09] <scarabeus> tanderson: ;]
[21:18.12] <Pesa> qt3 is enabled in /usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/make.defaults
[21:18.13] <tanderson> scarabeus: I'm sorry, I'd have taken it to a query if I had known
[21:18.22] <scarabeus> tanderson: no prob :]
[21:18.56] <scarabeus> hwoarang: ok since you two agree just do it, i wrote it in summary :]
[21:19.02] <hwoarang> ok
[21:19.09] <yngwin> afaik profile changes need announcement/discussion on dev ml, so i'll draft up something
[21:19.18] <hwoarang> thanks yngwin
[21:19.34] <Skim[ihz]> it is strange, but I can't add my own language in system settings... l10n is installed, kde installed without "kdeprefix", some software is translated, but I still can't add my own language.... ;(
[21:19.40] <hwoarang> Skim[ihz]: meeting time
[21:19.58] * scarabeus consider +m ;]
[21:20.03] <Skim[ihz]> -_-
[21:20.07] <scarabeus> we can voice pple if they query us
[21:20.09] <Skim[ihz]> sorry
[21:20.10] <wired> stop considering
[21:20.17] <wired> just do it already
[21:20.18] *** scarabeus sets mode: +m
[21:20.20] <wired> :D
[21:20.22] <scarabeus> should be done
[21:20.25] <hwoarang> ok
[21:20.33] <hwoarang> end of story
[21:20.44] <hwoarang> scarabeus: moving forward?
[21:20.48] <scarabeus> okey
[21:20.51] <hwoarang> kde4 stabilization?
[21:21.01] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: patrick since you are here, can we talk about the pykde?
[21:21.10] <bonsaikitten> we can
[21:21.21] *** gengor (n=gengor@gentoo/developer/gengor) has left <type 'buffer'>
[21:21.41] <spatz> you agreed to deprecate qt3 as of now, so i assume discussion on moving current packages to an overlay will be postponed?
[21:21.42] <scarabeus> it is 5th topic for those whom wonder
[21:21.50] <reavertm> scarabeus: voice tanderson
[21:21.52] <scarabeus> spatz: yes
[21:21.54] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v tanderson
[21:22.32] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: ok did you find any solution about the collisions in site-packages?
[21:22.42] <bonsaikitten> not yet, but I haven't spent much time on it
[21:22.54] <scarabeus> unprefixing of pykde is fine with us, but the issue is also in plasma-workspace now
[21:22.58] <scarabeus> or plasma-addons not sure now
[21:23.11] <bonsaikitten> either we allow to use a newer pykde with an older slotted kde (does that work?)
[21:23.20] <reavertm> (with python USE flag only)
[21:23.24] <bonsaikitten> or we try to move the pykde package to versioned directories
[21:23.36] <reavertm> it's all depending on kdeprefix status
[21:23.37] <bonsaikitten> but then packages trying to use it will most likely need some patching
[21:23.59] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: cant we somehow eselect correct site modules for what kde we start
[21:24.01] <reavertm> (no kdeprefix - no pytkde issue)
[21:24.20] *** pgega (n=pgega@77-99-66-168.cable.ubr01.tonb.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:24.22] <bonsaikitten> scarabeus: potentially yes, but might be very fragile
[21:24.34] <yngwin> eselect is not the answer here
[21:24.43] <scarabeus> and as reaver say, if we agree we can just mask kdeprefix flag, which will be voted
[21:24.50] <scarabeus> because without this the kde cant be stabled
[21:24.55] <scarabeus> the collision would piss users
[21:24.56] <reavertm> anyway - either unslot or eselect - pykde4-9999 is likely to not work very well with kdelibs-4.2
[21:24.57] <yngwin> someone still might want to run amarok1 in kde4 for example
[21:25.22] *** haavardw (n=haavardw@cm-84.208.110.202.getinternet.no) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:25.23] <bonsaikitten> right, so we need versioned dirs in site-packages
[21:25.31] <bonsaikitten> how many packages depend on pykde ?
[21:25.40] <scarabeus> everything in kde with use python
[21:25.49] <reavertm> yngwin: I don't see it relevant (amarok1)
[21:25.58] <reavertm> (as it uses kdelibs3)
[21:26.06] <yngwin> and pykde3
[21:26.07] <bonsaikitten> I'm aware of marble plasma-workspace
[21:26.10] <bonsaikitten> any others?
[21:26.10] *** haavardw (n=haavardw@cm-84.208.110.202.getinternet.no) has joined #gentoo-kde
[21:26.26] <reavertm> printing stuff
[21:26.30] <reavertm> (upcoming in 4.3)
[21:26.50] <reavertm> + guidance-power-manager (extragear)
[21:27.01] <bonsaikitten> ok, tolerable amount to patch
[21:27.19] *** pgega (n=pgega@77-99-66-168.cable.ubr01.tonb.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #gentoo-kde
[21:27.29] <reavertm> I don't worry about API differences here, rather ABI issues
[21:27.34] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v haavardw
[21:28.08] <bonsaikitten> reavertm: the only thing that will suffer is the detection by other packages afaict, so we will have to frickel them to accept the changes
[21:28.22] <reavertm> besides nobody really tried yet mixing new pykde4 with 'old' apps (and we're preventing it so far)
[21:28.22] <bonsaikitten> so if we have to tweak 5 packages that's an acceptable amount of work
[21:28.30] *** Phlogi_ (n=quassel@236-60.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[21:29.12] <reavertm> (I guess we don't plan to support older pykde4 with newer apps - so just SLOT deps would be dropped if any)
[21:29.18] *** bertodsera (n=quasseul@95.133.248.44) has joined #gentoo-kde
[21:29.45] <bonsaikitten> anyone willing to help?
[21:29.50] <yngwin> maybe you should test backwards compatibility of newer pykde4 then, as that would prevent the need for patching
[21:29.56] <reavertm> I did it partially in local branch
[21:30.43] <jmbsvicetto> Hi
[21:30.47] <wired> hey boss
[21:30.49] <jmbsvicetto> I'm sorry for being late
[21:31.16] <bonsaikitten> yngwin: right, that will be annoying to test :)
[21:31.27] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: so you and reaver will do it
[21:31.43] *** Phlogi (n=quassel@10-175.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #gentoo-kde
[21:31.49] <scarabeus> ?
[21:31.52] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v Phlogi
[21:31.59] <bonsaikitten> *sigh* :)
[21:32.06] <bonsaikitten> I'll try to have a look on the weekend
[21:32.07] <scarabeus> i take it as yes :]
[21:32.44] <scarabeus> ok
[21:32.55] <scarabeus> anything else to this topic?
[21:33.07] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: o hi, i missed ya ;]
[21:34.09] <scarabeus> ok, since there wont be more devs here around and since alexxy has pretty late hour i would like to go with his kdeprefix stuff
[21:34.12] <scarabeus> alexxy: please
[21:34.22] <scarabeus> the topic Solving the final question about kdeprefix.
[21:34.45] <alexxy> well
[21:35.34] <tanderson> One thing: I as a amd64 person won't let kde4 go stable on my architecture with kdeprefix available to my users
[21:35.49] <reavertm> :)
[21:36.01] <alexxy> he he =)
[21:36.03] <tanderson> It causes far too many problems
[21:36.08] <bonsaikitten> tanderson: don't make us go behind your back ;)
[21:36.18] <reavertm> you even don't know about one problem I know of :P
[21:36.20] <alexxy> so kdeprefix will cause many headache to users
[21:36.27] <hwoarang> it does already
[21:36.28] <tanderson> bonsaikitten: to whom?
[21:36.29] <alexxy> so lets mask it!
[21:36.29] <reavertm> (qt4 bug related to plugin loader)
[21:36.29] <alexxy> =)
[21:36.35] <scarabeus> also the python issue
[21:36.42] <scarabeus> plugin loader i personaly HATE
[21:36.49] <bonsaikitten> tanderson: well, let me put it this way - you're not the only one on amd64 with a commit access ;)
[21:37.01] <alexxy> bonsaikitten: if we will mask it
[21:37.12] <scarabeus> user can still unmask it
[21:37.17] <alexxy> people who want to use still can do it after unmasking
[21:37.19] <scarabeus> and we already state it deemed evil
[21:37.20] <tanderson> bonsaikitten: I think I represent the others on my team
[21:38.01] <scarabeus> :]
[21:38.03] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I noticed in the back log ;)
[21:38.13] <scarabeus> ok i think we should vote on it
[21:38.19] <scarabeus> and if the vote will be keep unmasked
[21:38.30] <scarabeus> the voting devs must promise to work on the issues with +kdeprefix
[21:38.34] <scarabeus> aka they will focus on them
[21:38.42] <scarabeus> not that I with -kdeprefix would fix them
[21:38.51] <scarabeus> objections?
[21:39.06] <jmbsvicetto> tanderson: You're forgetting that you can even mask a use flag in a profile ;)
[21:39.20] <jmbsvicetto> tanderson: so you could always stable kde4 *without* kdeprefix
[21:39.34] <tanderson> jmbsvicetto: I am aware of that
[21:39.37] <reavertm> tanderson: and we're not voting on removing kdeprefix - but masking in profiles
[21:39.51] <reavertm> (as most of devs will unmask it anyway)
[21:39.51] <yngwin> why not just remove it?
[21:40.01] <tanderson> I never mentioned removing kdeprefix! I mentioned "being available to my users"
[21:40.04] <scarabeus> because we use live and stable right now
[21:40.04] <tanderson> :)
[21:40.10] <scarabeus> yngwin: aside
[21:40.11] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / reavertm: what issues do you want to fix by masking it?
[21:40.15] <scarabeus> with help of +kdeprefix
[21:40.27] <jmbsvicetto> The pykde conflict and?
[21:40.28] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: update strategy, collisions, broken plugins, user confusion
[21:40.39] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: just decrease ^^^ impact on average users
[21:41.08] <jmbsvicetto> ok, I've became tired of fighting this war
[21:41.23] <jmbsvicetto> I'll let anyone else take this one if they want
[21:41.39] <scarabeus> i would more of like to convince you rather than tire you :]
[21:41.44] <jmbsvicetto> But, just for the record, my +kdeprefix laptop is working fine :P
[21:42.06] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yeah because me and reaver spent quite stuff on prefix stuff, and it is still not 100%
[21:42.07] <scarabeus> :]
[21:42.16] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: As I've said before, the real solution is to fix upstream build system to allow co-existence of different versions side by side
[21:42.18] <scarabeus> fist stuff was to be time
[21:42.23] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: you're free to go with +kdeprefix if you fix qt plugin loader to not pick oxygen.so from current kde session (and plugin cache stored in .config/Trolltech.conf) instead of using kde4-config --qtplugins
[21:42.25] <scarabeus> yes on that i agree
[21:42.41] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well we wont remove it
[21:42.42] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: that's no longer build system issue
[21:42.44] <scarabeus> just mask in profile
[21:42.47] <scarabeus> anyone can enable it
[21:42.50] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: this way someone might feel "pressured" to start that work ;)
[21:42.58] <reavertm> they can coexist
[21:43.09] <reavertm> there's problem with plugin loader
[21:43.14] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yeah it might motivate pple to work on it so it will get unmasked
[21:43.14] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I mean having them on the same dir, not on separate prefixes
[21:43.17] <reavertm> and of course with .desktop files
[21:43.33] <scarabeus> ok guys we are far away from the subject
[21:43.35] <reavertm> (they all have relative paths in Exec=)
[21:43.36] <scarabeus> it is mask/not mask
[21:43.46] * jmbsvicetto abstains
[21:44.01] <reavertm> in current state kdeprefix is NO GO
[21:44.21] <reavertm> one can not like it, but this is the fact
[21:44.25] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you cant you are lead :D
[21:44.31] <scarabeus> ok please
[21:44.34] <scarabeus> !herd kde vote
[21:44.39] <scarabeus> !herd kde
[21:44.40] <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: what about you?
[21:44.48] <scarabeus> i hate that bot
[21:44.50] <scarabeus> seriously
[21:44.51] <ABCD> scarabeus: Willikins doesn't have +v
[21:44.53] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: give me a minute
[21:44.55] <wired> rotfl
[21:44.57] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v Willikins
[21:44.57] *** jmbsvicetto sets mode: +v wired
[21:44.57] <reavertm> I've spent already too many hours working on it - if anyone doesn't like it, I'll be happy to pass the work to him
[21:44.59] <scarabeus> !herd kde
[21:44.59] <Willikins> (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr
[21:45.04] <scarabeus> O;]
[21:45.13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yeah, blame the bot ;)
[21:45.15] <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: I prefer kdeprefix, but I don't care enough to fight for it
[21:45.20] <jmbsvicetto> ok
[21:45.26] <scarabeus> i vote the mask
[21:45.39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: How do you plan to mask it?
[21:45.40] <alexxy> i vote for mask this crap!
[21:45.45] * wired votes on his dev bug
[21:45.48] <wired> :D
[21:45.50] <alexxy> jmbsvicetto: via use.mask
[21:45.55] <scarabeus> globaly in profile in use.mask
[21:46.00] <jmbsvicetto> base/use.mask ?
[21:46.02] <reavertm> I vote to mask it (for now)
[21:46.03] <scarabeus> yes
[21:46.14] <jmbsvicetto> Can users unmask it in /etc/portage ?
[21:46.18] <scarabeus> yes
[21:46.19] <yngwin> yes
[21:46.21] <reavertm> as it should have been done at the same begin
[21:46.24] <jmbsvicetto> iirc, last time one would have to do it in profiles/
[21:46.28] <jmbsvicetto> ok
[21:46.34] <yngwin> so it would still be available for those who really want it
[21:46.40] <jmbsvicetto> I can live with the mask then
[21:46.56] <ABCD> jmbsvicetto: to unmask, put "-kdeprefix" in /etc/portage/profiles/use.mask
[21:47.15] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: ok, thanks
[21:47.15] <scarabeus> ok somebody around whom didnt vote?
[21:47.22] <reavertm> ABCD: ssshh, users will hear it :P
[21:47.24] * jmbsvicetto notices Patrick didn't
[21:47.25] <yngwin> just make sure the whole thing is properly documented
[21:47.46] <scarabeus> well the guide will be updated, at least tampakrap_ promised he will do it
[21:48.00] <Pesa> ABCD: it's profile, not profiles, IIRC
[21:48.07] <ABCD> ...right
[21:48.17] <ABCD> I blame my IRC client
[21:48.17] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: so say mask/notmask plz
[21:48.25] <Pesa> ;)
[21:48.50] <reavertm> directory name is profiles, but calling it 'profile' is common :P
[21:48.57] <bonsaikitten> scarabeus: abstain
[21:49.04] *** himikof_ (n=himikof@129.167.249.ozerki.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:49.04] <scarabeus> :DDDD
[21:49.06] <ABCD> reavertm: directory name is profie - I just checked
[21:49.06] <scarabeus> ok
[21:49.14] <ABCD> profile*
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[21:49.23] <reavertm> (ah, you mean the one in /etc/portage)
[21:49.28] <Pesa> yes
[21:49.34] <Pesa> it's profile
[21:49.37] <scarabeus> ok then it will be masked in profiles
[21:49.38] <reavertm> nm, so results?
[21:49.40] <scarabeus> per vote
[21:49.42] <reavertm> great :P
[21:49.58] <scarabeus> alexxy: please do the change and according documentation update in the guide
[21:50.19] <tanderson> sweet
[21:50.31] <tanderson> Now I can stable kde with a clear conscience
[21:50.32] <alexxy> he he =)
[21:50.41] <reavertm> there should be information. about being unable to load oxygen.so and the need of wiping ~/.config/Trolltech.conf
[21:50.57] <alexxy> so tommorow i'll mask it via profile
[21:51.03] <scarabeus> alexxy: okey
[21:51.05] <alexxy> and update guide
[21:51.06] <alexxy> =)
[21:51.10] <scarabeus> so this topic is done :]
[21:51.17] * alexxy realy tired and gonna sleep
[21:51.24] <scarabeus> next one because we ocupied 2 in the row is for qt herd
[21:51.29] <scarabeus> topic: Handle the PyQt3 qscintilla dependencies
[21:51.31] <reavertm> (maybe remove all traces of kdeprefix from guide :)
[21:51.33] <scarabeus> alexxy: gn
[21:51.44] <scarabeus> yngwin: hwoarang ^
[21:51.49] <yngwin> what about it?
[21:51.56] <scarabeus> it is your topic
[21:51.58] <hwoarang> messy
[21:51.59] <yngwin> no
[21:51.59] <alexxy> gn =)
[21:52.09] <Pesa> i guess the problem is sip and PyQt-3?
[21:52.11] <yngwin> nn alexxy
[21:52.16] <hwoarang> nn alexxy
[21:52.18] <hwoarang> Pesa: no
[21:52.27] <hwoarang> pyqt3 requires qscintilla-python[-qt4]
[21:52.30] <yngwin> so what is the problem?
[21:52.36] <hwoarang> whilst Pyqt4 requires qscintilla-python[qt4]
[21:52.41] <yngwin> no it doesnt
[21:52.47] <hwoarang> sorry?
[21:52.48] <reavertm> :)
[21:53.05] <yngwin> PyQt4 does not hard depend on qscintilla
[21:53.15] <Pesa> indeed
[21:53.16] <reavertm> the other way around
[21:53.30] <reavertm> if any..
[21:53.53] <yngwin> if some app needs qscintilla-python[qt4], yes then there will be a blocker
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[21:54.08] <hwoarang> this blocker does not exist right now
[21:54.47] <yngwin> sort of, as you can only have qt4 or -qt4 set on qscintilla-python
[21:54.55] <Pesa> so the problem is that you can't have both qt3 and qt4 qscintilla installed?
[21:55.00] <hwoarang> ye
[21:55.01] <yngwin> indeed
[21:55.31] <hwoarang> adding qscintilla-python[-qt4] on PyQt
[21:55.37] <hwoarang> creates a kind of mess
[21:55.44] <yngwin> meaning you can only have PyQt and PyQt4 side by side as long as nothing needs qscintilla-python[qt4]
[21:55.47] <hwoarang> well , a mess that users dont get it
[21:55.51] <hwoarang> yes yngwin
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[21:56.22] <spatz> now that qt3 is removed this should happen less frequently
[21:56.36] <yngwin> it's not removed
[21:56.46] <hwoarang> spatz: this wont happen until 2010
[21:56.49] <spatz> it will be soon, i mean
[21:56.59] <hwoarang> we will remove qt3 use flag from desktop profile and that is all
[21:57.05] <spatz> removed from desktop profile
[21:57.17] <yngwin> ok
[21:57.28] <hwoarang> but still , the blocker is there
[21:57.34] <hwoarang> users can have qt3 on make.conf
[21:58.24] <reavertm> what's the problem here? python bindings collision?
[21:58.41] <reavertm> qt3 itself resides in separate prefix than qt4
[21:58.52] <Pesa> no
[21:58.54] <Pesa> qscintilla-python is fine
[21:58.55] <yngwin> you can build qscintilla-python only for qt3 OR qt4
[21:59.01] <Pesa> the problem is qscintilla iirc
[21:59.11] <reavertm> it's buildsystem doesn't allow that or what?
[21:59.28] <Pesa> file collisions
[21:59.48] <Pesa> the buildsystem is simply not designed to do that
[22:00.03] <scarabeus> adjust the build system
[22:00.04] <scarabeus> simple
[22:00.04] <yngwin> it may indeed by qscintilla itself, not the python bindings
[22:00.17] <yngwin> scarabeus: patches welcome
[22:00.33] <scarabeus> guys it is your bug :D
[22:00.39] <reavertm> (a'ka gfy :)
[22:00.43] <yngwin> then i say: mask for removal :p
[22:01.15] <yngwin> it's qt3, it's deprecated, i dont want to waste time on it
[22:01.28] <scarabeus> yngwin: well you are the boss
[22:01.34] <scarabeus> yngwin: and if hwoarang agree... :]
[22:02.07] <hwoarang> a real day issue is having amarok-1.4 and eric4
[22:02.20] <hwoarang> this sounds to me like the most common blocker
[22:02.25] <yngwin> there are just a few apps that use PyQt-3, most importantly amarok:3.5[python]
[22:02.28] *** jefferai (n=quassel@amarok/developer/mitchell) has joined #gentoo-kde
[22:02.30] <hwoarang> yes
[22:02.38] <hwoarang> amarok is the big pain atm
[22:02.48] <hwoarang> and many many ppl are using it
[22:03.02] <scarabeus> and what for are the python bindings
[22:03.10] <yngwin> scripts i suppose
[22:03.12] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v jefferai
[22:03.12] <hwoarang> scripts afaik
[22:03.28] <scarabeus> jefferai: by any chance you know how important are python bindings in amarok 1?
[22:03.32] <jmbsvicetto> hwoarang: amarok-1.4 can be deprecated after we get amarok-2 marked stable
[22:03.43] <yngwin> that will take a while
[22:03.48] <hwoarang> indeed
[22:03.51] <jefferai> scarabeus: there are python bindings in amarok 1?
[22:03.59] <hwoarang> :D
[22:04.20] <scarabeus> guys this is statement from upstream dev
[22:04.21] <scarabeus> :D
[22:04.28] <yngwin> so maybe we can mask python useflag in amarok-1* ?
[22:04.30] <scarabeus> so i think when they dont care why should we :P
[22:04.37] <jefferai> well, I'd have to ask
[22:04.42] <scarabeus> yngwin: yep that i was thinking about
[22:04.43] <jefferai> the fact that I'm not aware of them doesn't mean...
[22:05.03] <wired> jefferai: too late :P
[22:05.08] <jefferai> heh
[22:05.10] <hwoarang> python masking sounds good to me
[22:05.12] <spatz> that'll get more users annoyed than having problems with qscintilla, imo
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[22:05.27] <jmbsvicetto> jefferai: too late, python use flag has already been taken to the alley and beaten up^Dmasked ;)
[22:05.30] <yngwin> or have the useflag renamed and disabled by default
[22:05.46] <yngwin> as globally python is enabled by profile
[22:05.48] <jefferai> what's this for?
[22:06.14] <scarabeus> jefferai: some bindings probably :]
[22:06.19] <scarabeus> hopefully just bindings
[22:06.30] <jefferai> oh
[22:06.31] <yngwin> jefferai: we have a conflict between dependencies of PyQt3 and PyQt4, and amarok-1 is the biggest consumer of PyQt3 it seems
[22:06.33] <jefferai> webcontrol
[22:06.42] <jefferai> bah
[22:06.46] <jefferai> I don't know of anyone using it
[22:06.50] <jefferai> at least, that I've ever heard
[22:07.02] <jefferai> it's some random script that allows web control of Amarok -- I guess
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[22:07.17] <jefferai> take a look in the ebuild -- just make sure you keep that rm for the webcontrol script in there
[22:07.24] <jefferai> so that people don't file bugs asking why it doesn't work/run
[22:08.08] <scarabeus> we are still on the qscintilla topic? ;P
[22:08.23] <yngwin> yes
[22:08.35] <scarabeus> :]
[22:08.36] <scarabeus> okey
[22:08.51] *** pgega (n=pgega@77-99-66-168.cable.ubr01.tonb.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Client Quit)
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[22:09.14] <yngwin> so i propose useflag s/python/webcontrol/ in amarok-1* ebuilds
[22:09.43] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: ^
[22:09.53] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I'd suggest dropping the python flag and removing the scrpit
[22:09.55] <jmbsvicetto> script*
[22:10.07] <jefferai> either way
[22:10.24] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I think we should start hinting that users should start moving to amarok-2
[22:10.45] <scarabeus> yeah 2.1 is already usable on same level i think
[22:10.55] <yngwin> as long as it's not stable...
[22:11.28] <scarabeus> it will be next topic
[22:11.28] <scarabeus> :D
[22:11.36] <scarabeus> just finish with this one
[22:11.40] <yngwin> anyway, that will make things easier
[22:12.18] <yngwin> with that one done, what do we think of mutual blocking of PyQt and PyQt4 to prevent portage tripping over the deeper deps issue?
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[22:12.37] <scarabeus> yep that is good idea
[22:12.40] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: what apps will that mask?
[22:12.42] <scarabeus> the block between them
[22:12.54] <Pesa> sorry guys, my connection is lagging a lot
[22:12.57] <jmbsvicetto> s/mask/cause slot blocks/
[22:13.00] <yngwin> it won't mask anything, just force users to choose
[22:13.15] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, I meant what apps will be affected by that
[22:13.28] <jmbsvicetto> !rdep PyQt
[22:13.29] <Willikins> jmbsvicetto: Too many packages have reverse RDEPEND on dev-python/PyQt, go to http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/dev-python/PyQt instead.
[22:13.30] <yngwin> !rdep PyQt
[22:13.30] <jmbsvicetto> !rdep PyQt4
[22:13.31] <Willikins> jmbsvicetto: Too many packages have reverse RDEPEND on dev-python/PyQt4, go to http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/dev-python/PyQt4 instead.
[22:13.31] <Willikins> yngwin: Too many packages have reverse RDEPEND on dev-python/PyQt, go to http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/dev-python/PyQt instead.
[22:13.37] <yngwin> :)
[22:13.44] *** tbeadle (n=quassel@division.aa.arbor.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:13.55] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: sorry, feeling lazy today ;)
[22:14.06] <yngwin> kelogviewer, releaseforge, kanyremote
[22:14.07] <scarabeus> no important crap expect amarok i think
[22:14.25] <jmbsvicetto> hmm, hplip :\
[22:14.36] <yngwin> hplip also has qt4 option
[22:14.49] <ABCD> hplip has qt4 option (and I have it installed, so I know it works)
[22:14.58] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, sorry just noticed it
[22:15.02] <spatz> i think there's a bug about the new hplip version not really having qt3 support
[22:15.23] <scarabeus> he he
[22:15.24] <scarabeus> :D
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[22:16.40] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: in case you didnt look yet: http://bugs.gentoo.org/chart.cgi?category=-All-&subcategory=-All-&name=320&label0=Kde-Charting&line0=591&datefrom=&dateto=&action-wrap=Chart+This+List
[22:16.41] <yngwin> so does anyone have anything against the blocker?
[22:16.48] <scarabeus> no prob here
[22:16.51] *** Skim[ihz] (n=skim@skim.static.corbina.ru) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:16.56] <scarabeus> it looks fine when i compared
[22:17.06] <hwoarang> i am on board
[22:17.34] <yngwin> ok, let's do it then
[22:17.52] <yngwin> next topic :)
[22:18.02] <scarabeus> okey qt team can touch the amarok for this one i assume ;]
[22:18.12] <scarabeus> KDE 4 Stabilisation.
[22:18.15] <scarabeus> quite big
[22:18.41] <scarabeus> but the bugs are ok, and now we agreed masking the prefix useflag only thing that remains is the kde4 apps out of the kde4 session
[22:18.53] <scarabeus> reavertm: how we are standing on that bug, i was not paying much attention to it lately
[22:19.02] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hmm, should I get a chart?
[22:19.14] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes for me it draws nice chart
[22:19.19] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: open in anything else than FF
[22:19.28] <scarabeus> and second thing is what version we will stable
[22:19.29] <jmbsvicetto> so it only fails on FF?
[22:19.30] <scarabeus> 4.2 or 4.3
[22:19.30] <yngwin> wow that is fail
[22:19.31] *** etix (n=etix@videolan/developer/etix) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:19.41] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes
[22:19.42] <jmbsvicetto> I'd say it depends when we get it done
[22:19.53] <jmbsvicetto> For the next 2 months I would bet on 4.2.4 and or 4.2.5
[22:19.59] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well i am testing the 4.2.91 and i am damn impressed
[22:20.02] <reavertm> they would work with kdeprefix if qt plugin loader wasn't affected - with -kdeprefix (and ~.config/Trolltech.conf wiped out) they are fine
[22:20.23] <reavertm> another issue is with kde3 .desktop icons in kde4 session
[22:20.38] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yeah, but it's too early for it
[22:20.42] <scarabeus> the guys are really working their asses to make it nice
[22:20.43] <reavertm> currently nothing is shown (because nothing would work)
[22:20.49] <scarabeus> well it will be in 1 month around
[22:20.58] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I guess users that have been waiting for 2 years, can wait another month or two for 4.3 ;)
[22:20.59] <spatz> and you'll have to wait a month to stabilize it
[22:21.00] <scarabeus> also the printing dialog is tempting
[22:21.14] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ok should we vote on the thing or we agree
[22:21.19] <scarabeus> reavertm: what do you think :]
[22:21.40] <reavertm> scarabeus: does that printing dialog work for you?
[22:21.46] <scarabeus> reavertm: nope ;D
[22:21.47] <jmbsvicetto> I guess I'll make an "executive decision" on this one :P
[22:21.48] <reavertm> (crashes in my cheoot)
[22:21.54] <scarabeus> it says that it hate me
[22:21.58] <scarabeus> it cant chat with cups
[22:22.02] <reavertm> scarabeus: printing is deferred until fixed :P
[22:22.04] <scarabeus> even tho i am able to print
[22:22.18] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: okey so decide
[22:22.29] <reavertm> (so no go for system-config-printer-kde and printer-applet)
[22:22.30] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: fine with me you are elected lead, so you choose global policy:]
[22:22.41] <jmbsvicetto> 4.2.[4|5] for the next 2 months - after that we can talk about 4.3
[22:22.42] <scarabeus> reavertm: they are already in the tree by accident ;DDD
[22:22.53] <reavertm> well, masked they can be
[22:22.58] <scarabeus> reavertm: some looser already opened bug about it has missing deps ;D
[22:23.08] <scarabeus> because movetocvs just grab everything with nice version :D
[22:23.08] <reavertm> good
[22:23.21] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: we should also open the bug asap
[22:23.26] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ok whom will handle stabling of 4.2 then
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[22:24.01] <jmbsvicetto> what is blocking it?
[22:24.10] <reavertm> most of kde4 issues
[22:24.10] <scarabeus> the above thng only
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[22:24.12] <reavertm> :P
[22:24.23] <scarabeus> running the kde4 apps out of the kde4 session
[22:24.25] <jmbsvicetto> kde-print?
[22:24.28] <jmbsvicetto> ah
[22:24.29] <scarabeus> but it should be addressed already
[22:24.30] <reavertm> also kdm crashes
[22:24.40] <scarabeus> yeah kdm is weird crap with -O3
[22:24.53] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: KDE has had issues with -O3 since ever
[22:25.01] <reavertm> without -O3 as well (but works with new user)
[22:25.02] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: If you look in bugzilla there were a few reports about that
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[22:25.16] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: are you sure it's not a graphics driver issue?
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[22:25.28] <scarabeus> if it works with new user...
[22:25.41] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, hmm config option?
[22:25.46] <reavertm> like?
[22:25.55] *** Civil (n=Civilian@95-24-130-90.broadband.corbina.ru) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[22:26.02] <reavertm> anyway, stabilization bug could be opened to track issues
[22:26.09] <scarabeus> tracker bug
[22:26.13] <jmbsvicetto> let's open the tracker then
[22:26.15] <scarabeus> 1 for tracking 2 for stabling
[22:26.17] <reavertm> personally I wouldn't hurry with stabilization
[22:26.23] <scarabeus> but whom will wrangle the stuff
[22:26.31] <scarabeus> i guess tampy wont do second round
[22:26.33] <reavertm> everyone :P
[22:26.33] <scarabeus> :]
[22:26.55] <jmbsvicetto> I suppose you want someone with -kdeprefix O:-)
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[22:27.24] <scarabeus> GRM
[22:27.37] <yngwin> btw i noticed sabayon is on +kdeprefix
[22:27.38] <scarabeus> i am definetly sure that i will still target on closing bug than on wrangling them
[22:27.41] <reavertm> I'd take commit count :D
[22:27.47] <scarabeus> i am allways depressed about wrangling
[22:28.06] <scarabeus> yngwin: 5.0 branch is -kdeprefix
[22:28.09] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: oh, looking at bugs? we can all do it
[22:28.16] <scarabeus> remember that we cooperate at sabayon
[22:28.18] <yngwin> ok good
[22:28.26] <scarabeus> s/at/with/
[22:28.34] <yngwin> yes, thats why i mentioned it
[22:28.37] <scarabeus> !seen joost-op
[22:28.39] <Willikins> scarabeus: nope!
[22:28.53] <scarabeus> !seen joost_op
[22:28.54] <Willikins> scarabeus: joost_op was last seen 4 days, 45 minutes and 54 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[22:29.28] <scarabeus> i already discussed with him about it :]
[22:29.31] <scarabeus> so problem solved :]
[22:30.03] <scarabeus> ok i think we have stuff that is needed to be done
[22:30.15] <scarabeus> and i guess each of us can wrangle some itching bug
[22:30.25] <scarabeus> i think everything above normal must be assinged there
[22:30.25] *** haavardw (n=haavardw@cm-84.208.110.202.getinternet.no) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[22:30.33] <scarabeus> and rest is up to our decision
[22:31.26] <scarabeus> anything else to this topic?
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[22:31.37] <reavertm> hmm,m what about phonon?
[22:31.38] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v ABCD
[22:31.44] <scarabeus> already stable
[22:31.46] <reavertm> it will be blocker for 4.3 I guess
[22:31.57] <scarabeus> ah this
[22:32.07] <scarabeus> it is not issue for 4.2 stable bug for now
[22:32.17] <scarabeus> even if we might transcendent to 4.3 it can be address later
[22:33.34] <scarabeus> ok since everyone is silent lets go with next topic
[22:33.37] <scarabeus> topic: Review the useflags we enable by default in qt herd
[22:33.44] <scarabeus> yngwin, hwoarang: ^
[22:33.51] <reavertm> (and in kde as well :P)
[22:33.59] <scarabeus> i think the +gtkdialog is FKHE#(*%$YU#HR$(*%W#URJTN stupid
[22:34.03] <scarabeus> it pulls gtk
[22:34.07] <scarabeus> and that pulls X
[22:34.10] <scarabeus> on -X install
[22:34.15] <reavertm> gtktheme you mean?
[22:34.16] <scarabeus> so instead of 17 deps you have 55
[22:34.20] <scarabeus> oh theme right
[22:34.38] <spatz> gtkstyle
[22:34.45] <reavertm> ah
[22:34.54] <scarabeus> what ever ;]
[22:35.14] <spatz> but that's in qt-gui which needs X anyway
[22:35.25] <hwoarang> :)
[22:35.49] *** bbroeksema (n=bbroekse@cust-02-5286b4cb.adsl.scarlet.nl) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[22:35.57] <Pesa> there's another topic in the agenda about this btw
[22:36.01] <yngwin> we could rename that to gtk, so it only get enabled by default in desktop profile
[22:36.17] <spatz> was just about to say that
[22:36.22] <hwoarang> Pesa: which one
[22:36.31] <Pesa> review the useflags we enable by default in qt herd
[22:36.33] <spatz> rename to gtk and not have it on by default
[22:36.38] *** B-Man1 (n=B-Man@cpe-098-024-241-139.ec.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:36.45] <yngwin> Pesa: thats what we're discussing now
[22:36.52] *** B-Man (n=B-Man@cpe-098-024-241-139.ec.res.rr.com) has joined #gentoo-kde
[22:37.05] <Pesa> ha
[22:37.09] <Pesa> i failed
[22:37.09] <hwoarang> :P
[22:37.17] <Pesa> i'm getting angry with my ISP
[22:37.33] <hwoarang> do we really need to enable something by default?
[22:37.37] <spatz> but gtk isn't the only issue, also dbus, glib, qt3support and others
[22:37.44] <spatz> they're all enabled by default
[22:37.54] <hwoarang> dbus is already on profile
[22:37.56] <scarabeus> qt3support disable guys i think
[22:38.01] <scarabeus> glib can be disabled too
[22:38.06] <scarabeus> i live without the later
[22:38.15] <hwoarang> i cant recall why glib is on
[22:38.16] <scarabeus> and the former we demand on kde but otherwise it is not needed right?
[22:38.29] <hwoarang> i think
[22:39.08] <spatz> the default should be off by default unless there's a good reason, not the way it is right that almost everything is on by default, IMHO
[22:39.20] <spatz> i'm talking about all qt-* useflags
[22:39.36] <hwoarang> yes
[22:39.39] <yngwin> the reasoning why i enabled most of those is to have the default qt4 install have all the functionality that most users would want
[22:40.04] <hwoarang> define: all the functionality
[22:40.05] <spatz> most users of qt will have a desktop profile and/or have all the useflags they want enabled
[22:40.05] <hwoarang> :P
[22:40.26] <hwoarang> desktop profile enables most of them anyway
[22:40.42] <scarabeus> i would suggest remove all + and see what it does
[22:40.48] <scarabeus> and introduce only where really needed
[22:40.49] <yngwin> yes, so we can drop those that the desktop profile enables
[22:40.54] <scarabeus> re-introduce
[22:40.57] <spatz> the current behavious is useless to the average user and annoying to those actually having a benefit from split ebuilds
[22:40.59] <Pesa> qt3support is enabled by desktop
[22:41.10] <yngwin> useless??
[22:41.10] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I don't quite agree
[22:41.24] <spatz> yes, because he has those useflags enabled anyway
[22:41.30] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: see above
[22:41.32] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: default use flags allow us to drop most use flags from profiles
[22:41.33] <spatz> it doesn't affect him at all
[22:41.34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: the flag is in profile
[22:41.41] <yngwin> more superfluous than useless
[22:41.47] <scarabeus> i was damn angry having +qt3support on sever
[22:41.51] <spatz> yes
[22:41.53] <scarabeus> so i had to edit useflag list
[22:41.56] <spatz> bad choice of words
[22:42.06] <jmbsvicetto> spatz: nothing prevents you from adding -<use> to your /etc/portage/package.use[/*] config file(s)
[22:42.34] <hwoarang> mm
[22:42.46] <spatz> of course, but useflags should be opt-in, not opt-out in the general case
[22:42.48] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: yes, but instead of removing default use flags because they're enabled on profiles, we should be dropping use flags from profiles and moving them to default use flags
[22:43.03] <yngwin> so let's drop the + on the useflags that are already in profiles
[22:43.11] <hwoarang> +1
[22:43.12] <spatz> that would be a good start
[22:43.13] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: really? why?
[22:43.15] <yngwin> and rename gtkstyle to gtk
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[22:43.36] <jmbsvicetto> because that would prevent users from getting all the crap they get from profiles with ton of use flags like qt, kde, gtk or gnome
[22:43.45] <jmbsvicetto> tons*
[22:43.46] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i really like that i have different useflags on case like server/desktop based on profile
[22:44.01] <scarabeus> and for the qt it really made me sad
[22:44.02] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, but desktop profiles currently have too many use flags
[22:44.25] <spatz> maybe the desktop profile needs to be split, but that's out of scope
[22:44.28] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: the first thing I add to my servers is USE="-X -gtk -gnome -kde -qt" ;)
[22:44.39] <scarabeus> yeah yeah but i need qt on mine server
[22:44.40] <yngwin> maybe desktop profile should be divided into subprofiles
[22:44.43] <scarabeus> quassel ;\
[22:44.45] <scarabeus> ;]
[22:45.10] <yngwin> so?
[22:45.10] <jmbsvicetto> No, I don't think it's out of scope. Instead of spliting profiles or moving flags from packages to profiles, I think we should be going the other way around and dropping use flags from profiles back to packages
[22:45.16] <spatz> and you shouldn't use the desktop profile on your server :)
[22:45.19] <yngwin> you can still have quassel with -qt
[22:45.42] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: mail the idea to the -dev :]
[22:45.42] <spatz> per profile is more appropriate than per package
[22:45.45] <jmbsvicetto> spatz: I don't use the desktop profile on my workstations ;)
[22:45.45] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: well, that's stuff for a wider policy discussion
[22:45.51] <spatz> that was also agreed last week on -dev, iirc
[22:45.56] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: indeed
[22:46.08] <spatz> that's what i meant by "out of scope"
[22:46.16] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v wired|quassel
[22:47.07] <jmbsvicetto> Anyway, I think kde should retain default use flags for most optional support features that upstream enables by default
[22:47.26] <yngwin> well, i dont have a string preference here, but it looks like my qt brothers do
[22:47.32] <yngwin> strong*
[22:48.10] <spatz> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_d676d199747afac881bbf444dac478ea.xml
[22:48.48] <scarabeus> ok lets continue this topic there
[22:48.56] <scarabeus> rather on the meeting :]
[22:49.16] <scarabeus> wired: are you around?
[22:49.25] <wired> yes
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[22:49.36] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: upstream enabled by default everything that's autodetected
[22:49.39] <scarabeus> wired: did you tracked the tampakrap what he is doing with kde3?
[22:49.48] <reavertm> hence, it's bad approach imho
[22:49.50] <wired> only the eclass part
[22:49.53] <scarabeus> ah
[22:49.59] <wired> scarabeus: btw i talked to him a few minutes ago
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[22:50.05] <scarabeus> where is he
[22:50.10] <wired> he missed the meeting because he was traveling to athens
[22:50.19] <scarabeus> and can he get online now?
[22:50.24] <scarabeus> only to give us status info?
[22:50.32] <scarabeus>  /report
[22:50.33] <wired> hmm
[22:50.39] <wired> let me call him and ask
[22:50.42] <wired> 1min
[22:50.51] <spatz> yngwin: so let's do what you decided and check back in while
[22:51.27] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: They don't autoenable everything
[22:51.31] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: they do
[22:51.36] <spatz> gtkstyle->gtk, remove default on all flags enabled in desktop profile
[22:51.37] <wired> scarabeus: he'll be in here in 15m
[22:51.38] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: if they detect package, they enable it
[22:51.44] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: For instance kopete doesn't enable by default all protocols and plugins
[22:51.47] <yngwin> do we change them now or on next release?
[22:51.56] <reavertm> there are some exceptions, yes
[22:51.59] *** mrpouet (n=mrpouet@gentoo/developer/mrpouet) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:52.00] <scarabeus> ok guys how much you want to read last topic
[22:52.19] <wired> scarabeus: ok? =]
[22:52.33] <scarabeus> wired: well it depends on others
[22:52.41] <scarabeus> i cant hold them here for another 20 minutes ;]
[22:52.45] <spatz> yngwin: would that require re-stabilizing?
[22:52.46] <scarabeus> the meeting already lasts 2 hours
[22:53.02] <yngwin> hmm, good question
[22:53.03] <scarabeus> spatz: nope, archies are supposed to test various use flags
[22:53.13] <jmbsvicetto> wired: he can login when he can and put a short status message here
[22:53.21] <yngwin> so i guess not :)
[22:53.29] <spatz> if not than we should do it now, imo
[22:53.36] <spatz> otherwise we'll forget :)
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[22:53.55] <Pesa> 4.5.2 shouldn't be too far
[22:53.58] *** NSaibot (n=quassel@dslb-094-217-110-040.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #gentoo-kde
[22:53.58] <yngwin> in that case we can also drop custom-cxxflags useflag as we decided before
[22:54.02] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: it can change the installed package, so it should go through the revbump process
[22:54.20] <yngwin> ok
[22:54.23] <Pesa> then wait for 4.5.2
[22:54.31] <yngwin> i agree
[22:54.37] <spatz> for everything or just custom-cxxflags?
[22:54.42] <yngwin> everything
[22:54.42] <Pesa> everything
[22:54.55] <spatz> ok
[22:55.27] <yngwin> of course we can already do it in the overlay, where applicable
[22:55.29] <spatz> next topic?
[22:55.43] *** bearsh (n=quassel@80-219-1-239.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[22:55.45] <spatz> btw, what about libX11 dep in qt-core?
[22:56.02] <yngwin> that's good to go into the tree
[22:56.20] <Pesa> should we do the same for qt-dbus?
[22:56.21] <spatz> those deps should be added to qt-gui and friends, no?
[22:56.35] <yngwin> ah good call
[22:56.35] <spatz> Pesa: it works for me
[22:56.48] <yngwin> can you commit to overlay?
[22:56.53] <spatz> those that do depend on libX11 and libXext should get it
[22:57.16] <yngwin> make sure all modules are ok and checked for those
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[22:58.03] <spatz> i might not have time to do it in the overlay because of my exams :/
[22:58.10] <yngwin> so we need to revbump those packages anyway
[22:58.54] <yngwin> then we might as well do the useflag change, unless 4.5.2 is released very soon
[22:59.04] <Pesa> right
[22:59.18] <spatz> ok, great
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[23:00.05] <yngwin> scarabeus: shall we close the meeting then?
[23:00.06] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v papillon81
[23:00.18] <scarabeus> well we can wait 8 minutes and tampy will be here
[23:00.23] <scarabeus> it is up to you
[23:00.31] <yngwin> you forget he's greek
[23:00.42] <spatz> for what topic? (i forgot)
[23:00.43] <scarabeus> what does it mean
[23:00.51] <scarabeus> Progress of kde3 mess and way how anyone can help (here we call even for non-kdeteam devs)
[23:00.52] <yngwin> 8 minutes could mean anything
[23:01.23] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v wohnout
[23:01.33] *** Gabrys (n=Gabrys@77-254-190-150.adsl.inetia.pl) has joined #gentoo-kde
[23:02.02] <scarabeus> wired: ok tell him not to rush, and he will have to sent us the mail onto the kde@ and qt@ alliases or onto -desktop
[23:02.24] <scarabeus> ok i hereby close the meeting
[23:02.30] <scarabeus> and btw someone create log
[23:02.30] <wired> well he should be here shortly, but ok :)
[23:02.36] *** scarabeus sets mode: -m
[23:02.55] <tampakrap_> i'm here
[23:02.57] <scarabeus> aghr
[23:02.59] *** tampakrap_ is now known as tampakrap
[23:03.02] <scarabeus> you are joking :D
[23:03.04] <yngwin> lol
[23:03.05] *** scarabeus sets mode: +m
[23:03.06] <tampakrap> no i am here
[23:03.15] <yngwin> welcome :)
[23:03.15] <scarabeus> yeah i see :]
[23:03.16] <scarabeus> ok
[23:03.33] <scarabeus> welcome indeed
[23:03.34] <tampakrap> what's the deal
[23:03.36] <tampakrap> ?
[23:03.41] <wired> lol
[23:03.48] <yngwin> kde3
[23:03.54] <scarabeus> we want to know
[23:03.59] <spatz> <scarabeus> Progress of kde3 mess and way how anyone can help (here we call even for non-kdeteam devs)
[23:04.00] <scarabeus> state/progress what is to be done
[23:04.02] <scarabeus> what is done
[23:04.16] <tampakrap> ok
[23:04.31] <tampakrap> kde3 misc apps need slotmove and stabilization this will take some time
[23:04.34] <tampakrap> as i have no help
[23:04.35] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: hehe
[23:04.39] <jmbsvicetto> Heya Theo
[23:04.44] <tampakrap> koffice is my playground, i'll fix eclass
[23:04.47] <scarabeus> tampakrap: hey i did about 5-10 apps
[23:04.51] <tampakrap> *hello hello*
[23:05.00] <tampakrap> not the stabilization part though
[23:05.07] <tampakrap> so i still have to take care of the list
[23:05.13] <tampakrap> and kde-base/*3.5.10*
[23:05.20] <tampakrap> has many *stupid* bugs
[23:05.22] <scarabeus> tampakrap: i would suggest to switch all misc apps
[23:05.25] <tampakrap> that i have no motivation to fix
[23:05.26] <scarabeus> and then open 1 stable bug
[23:05.33] <tampakrap> this can't be done
[23:05.40] <tampakrap> they don't have the same keywords
[23:05.40] <scarabeus> why not
[23:05.44] <scarabeus> no problem
[23:05.45] <tampakrap> and it is against the rules :)
[23:05.48] <scarabeus> just make list for each arch
[23:06.02] <scarabeus> we do it in X when we stable all the stuff
[23:06.09] <tampakrap> this isn't easier for me
[23:06.13] <scarabeus> okey
[23:06.16] <scarabeus> as pleases you
[23:06.19] <scarabeus> since you do the work
[23:06.20] <tampakrap> i slotmove package, check bugs and open bug
[23:06.34] <tampakrap> anything else?
[23:06.41] <tampakrap> what did you say about the stabilization?
[23:06.44] <tampakrap> of kde4
[23:06.55] <scarabeus> KDE 4 Stabilisation.
[23:06.55] <scarabeus> - Jorge decided to start with 4.2 stabilisation.
[23:06.55] <scarabeus> - stabilisation bug will have to be opened
[23:06.55] <scarabeus> - tracking bug will have to be opened and bugs wrangled (volunteers??)
[23:06.59] <scarabeus> this is summary
[23:07.08] <tampakrap> ok
[23:07.11] <tampakrap> we need tracker again
[23:07.18] <scarabeus> ah how about asking for help with kde3 misc stuff on -dev
[23:07.25] *** Skim[ihz] (n=skim@skim.static.corbina.ru) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:07.26] <tampakrap> i volunteer with bug wrangling
[23:07.37] <scarabeus> ssuominen did probably great job with removing arts usefla
[23:07.38] <scarabeus> g
[23:07.44] <scarabeus> how is its progress
[23:07.49] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v ssuominen
[23:07.59] <tampakrap> well we can say that kde3 is *open* for anyone
[23:08.09] <ssuominen> media-sound cat. is clear of all arts deps
[23:08.10] <scarabeus> !rdep arts
[23:08.10] <Willikins> scarabeus: Too many packages have reverse RDEPEND on kde-base/arts, go to http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/kde-base/arts instead.
[23:08.14] <ssuominen> media-libs half way
[23:08.14] <tampakrap> not for maintaining but for random bugfixing
[23:08.16] *** [Enrico] (n=chiccoro@host224-36-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[23:08.21] <ssuominen> media-video undone
[23:08.31] <scarabeus> 785 packages
[23:08.34] * scarabeus is sad
[23:08.41] <ssuominen> the media-sound apps left on the list are masked for removal or similar
[23:08.43] <ssuominen> yeah
[23:08.51] *** g1lt (n=quassel@203-79-94-158.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #gentoo-kde
[23:08.52] <scarabeus> just set allways arts never when there is optional in ebuild in eclass?
[23:08.56] <scarabeus> that might close few?
[23:08.57] <ssuominen> there's lots to be done, i can handle it by opening some bugs for teams
[23:09.05] <ssuominen> to speed it up
[23:09.20] <ssuominen> did similar when i killed gtk+-1.2 from 50%+ pkgs the another summer
[23:09.24] <ssuominen> :P
[23:09.32] <wohnout> death to arts
[23:10.09] <ssuominen> can we quick vote on "let's remove arts from use defaults immediately?"
[23:10.12] <ssuominen> ;)
[23:10.19] <scarabeus> ssuominen: voted allowed already
[23:10.21] <scarabeus> just do it
[23:10.24] * ssuominen does
[23:10.35] <scarabeus> ssuominen: will you be our asignee for arts thing? you seems to enjoy it ;}
[23:11.49] <ssuominen> don't mind handling it so why not
[23:11.56] <scarabeus> okey
[23:12.04] <scarabeus> i will sent you the eclass update then
[23:12.08] <scarabeus> for arts removal
[23:12.18] <scarabeus> btw how much packages probably has arts HARDDEP?
[23:12.21] <scarabeus> can it be found out?
[23:12.22] <ssuominen> over the half way, there will always be a maintainer or two who attacks you for removings on false grounds (hit few of those on the gtk+-1.2 road)
[23:13.04] <scarabeus> you see how much it hurts mine heart? ;]
[23:13.05] <ssuominen> well in media-sound i've fixed about 50% pkgs to not dep on arts anymore
[23:13.08] <scarabeus> so painfull ;]
[23:13.10] <ssuominen> it was totally false
[23:13.29] <scarabeus> well they can state it to us, probably anouncal on -dev might be good
[23:13.30] <ssuominen> and removed about the optional dep on 25% and remaining 25% got punted
[23:14.13] <ssuominen> but i guess there's no hurry
[23:14.21] <ssuominen> but giving it a small boost won't hurt
[23:14.23] <ssuominen> ;)
[23:14.24] <tampakrap> yes
[23:14.26] <scarabeus> :]
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[23:15.29] <scarabeus> anything else we have for kde3?
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[23:15.38] <tampakrap> kill it?
[23:15.48] *** geo27 (n=quassel@lns-bzn-30-82-253-130-209.adsl.proxad.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:16.13] <tampakrap> look ppl i told you i have no motivation in this thing any more, what i did was to make sure it can work with kde4
[23:16.29] <scarabeus> tampakrap: ok we should recruit someone for that
[23:16.41] <tampakrap> since this thing works, we have to tell ppl *asap* that we have no motivation for maintaining it any more
[23:16.43] <scarabeus> tampakrap: i really agree that you dont have to push it so hard forward if you dont have the motivation
[23:16.49] <tampakrap> it started not to compile you know :)
[23:17.02] <jmbsvicetto> And to have security issues!
[23:17.04] <scarabeus> tampakrap: open the requirement on the stuffing needs
[23:17.18] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: nope, add it to our project page
[23:17.19] <tampakrap> no, no, kde3 doesn't need maintainer
[23:17.25] <reavertm> it would be best to have it handled by some dev determined to stay with kde3
[23:17.29] <tampakrap> just various bugfixing by ppl who use it
[23:17.43] <scarabeus> yeah somebody determined using it would be nice
[23:17.43] <reavertm> at least in kde team there is none...
[23:17.49] <reavertm> :)
[23:17.52] <scarabeus> well carlo...
[23:17.58] <scarabeus> last seen on february
[23:18.09] <scarabeus> when he broke quite few packages with wrong eapi2 bump
[23:18.45] <reavertm> well, nobody is as experienced in eapi2 bumps like we are :P
[23:18.49] <scarabeus> so we reaaaally need someone
[23:18.52] <scarabeus> reavertm: yeah :D
[23:18.57] <scarabeus> we are masters :D
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[23:19.21] <yngwin> sping is interested
[23:19.40] <scarabeus> who is sping
[23:19.44] <scarabeus> where is sping
[23:19.51] <scarabeus> give us sping!
[23:19.53] <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: will you use your hat and send an email to -dev plz?
[23:19.59] <yngwin> sebastian ping, currently doing GSoC
[23:20.02] <reavertm> scarabeus: just drop 'packages up for grab' list on gentoo-dev with `200 kde3 ebuilds that kde team doesn't care about anymore :D
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[23:20.16] <scarabeus> rofl
[23:20.21] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: could we do it?
[23:20.22] <scarabeus> :DDDDDD
[23:20.27] <yngwin> pipping*
[23:20.38] *** Varox (n=Varox@p4FD46B43.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #gentoo-kde
[23:20.38] <yngwin> the PackageMap guy
[23:20.48] <scarabeus> oh i see
[23:20.54] <scarabeus> and is he on irc from time to time?
[23:21.07] <yngwin> yes
[23:21.12] <scarabeus> but i assume he is uberbusy with gsoc on the other hand
[23:21.17] <yngwin> yes
[23:21.30] <yngwin> he will return to recruitment after gsoc
[23:22.17] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: about kde3? ok
[23:22.39] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: wait for summary i have 2 mails for you probably :D
[23:22.39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / reavertm: no :\
[23:23.02] <scarabeus> ok we are probably done about the topic for now, at least until gsoc is over
[23:23.05] <jmbsvicetto> no (no we can't drop kde3 on maintainer-needed)
[23:23.17] <reavertm> that was joke :)
[23:23.31] <tampakrap> i can supervise the commits
[23:23.34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: it was really joke :]
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[23:23.44] <tampakrap> but for bugfixing i doubt it
[23:23.57] <scarabeus> ok i anounce the meeting over then :]