path: root/meeting-logs/kde-qt-projects-meeting-log-20091119.txt

[20:45:05] <wired> toum toum
[20:46:51] <yngwin> sssh
[20:48:34] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 1: Upstream split packages (per kde-scm-interest mail i told you to read)'
[20:52:39] *** Joins: zizo (n=Zizo@host214-182-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
[20:52:59] *** Parts: zizo (n=Zizo@host214-182-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
[20:56:35] *** Joins: PSYCHO___ (n=scarabeu@gentoo/developer/scarabeus)
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[20:57:05] <wired> darn 3g con
[20:59:38] <wired> so... meeting time? :)
[21:01:16] <yngwin> yup
[21:01:19] <PSYCHO___> indeed
[21:01:27] <PSYCHO___> anyone can record the histroy?
[21:01:38] <PSYCHO___> i cant log, because quassel is not entirely cooperating right now
[21:01:39] * wired logging
[21:01:48] <PSYCHO___> for the log <- scarabeus
[21:02:04] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets start with rollcall
[21:02:05] <wired> even if I seem down my znc/bouncer will keep logging, im on a 3g connection right now (dsl is down)
[21:02:33] *** Joins: spatz (n=spatz@gentoo/developer/spatz)
[21:03:18] *** Joins: ayoy (n=ayoy@gentoo/developer/ayoy)
[21:03:39] *** Joins: mrpouet (n=quassel@gentoo/developer/mrpouet)
[21:03:45] <PSYCHO___> ok so anyone else here?
[21:04:02] *** Joins: wohnout (n=wohnout@88.86.113.238)
[21:04:02] <spatz> me
[21:04:09] <tampakrap> you are so lame
[21:04:11] <dagger> me
[21:04:12] <tampakrap> !herd kde
[21:04:13] <Willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, ssuominen, tampakrap, tgurr, wired
[21:04:13] * wired here
[21:04:13] <mrpouet> and me
[21:04:17] <tampakrap> !herd qt
[21:04:18] <Willikins> (qt) abcd, ayoy, carlo, hwoarang, spatz, tampakrap, wired, yngwin
[21:04:18] <wohnout> PSYCHO___: stop talking and start working
[21:04:19] <tampakrap> roll call
[21:04:22] <yngwin> present
[21:04:22] <PSYCHO___> :D
[21:04:24] <ayoy> I'm here
[21:04:27] <spatz> HERE
[21:04:46] <spatz> only qt people
[21:04:52] <PSYCHO___> spatz: it is required only to say it once
[21:04:53] <DrEeevil> mostly present
[21:04:58] <mrpouet> while(1) printf("HERE\n");   :D
[21:05:03] <spatz> PSYCHO___: here :D
[21:05:04] <mrpouet> okay ==> [ ]
[21:05:34] <wired> some get kde 3.5 killer... errr.... ssuominen here as well! :P
[21:05:43] <PSYCHO___> ok thats not exactly attendance i expected
[21:06:10] <wired> scarabeus: lets wait at least 5 more minutes
[21:06:42] <wired> im also worried that some people might show up in an hour or so...
[21:06:46] <PSYCHO___> ok
[21:06:59] <spatz> because of DST?
[21:07:04] *** Joins: Sput (n=sputnick@quassel/developer/sput)
[21:07:04] <wired> yeah
[21:07:15] <wired> happened last time
[21:07:23] <PSYCHO___> they can use date -u
[21:07:29] <PSYCHO___> so thats not exactly excuse
[21:07:45] <wired> no'ones trying to excuse them
[21:07:47] <yngwin> dst stinks
[21:07:47] <wired> :P
[21:07:56] * spatz uses date -u
[21:09:17] <ayoy> so?
[21:09:28] <wired> so
[21:09:28] <yngwin> agenda?
[21:09:30] <wired> time's up, lets go!
[21:09:42] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: agenda is on -desktop-ml in that mails
[21:09:43] <wired> scarb has first item @ /topic
[21:10:00] <PSYCHO___> i will put them onto the topic as we will be going
[21:10:03] <yngwin> thats scattered
[21:10:22] * wired fixes agenda
[21:12:07] <wired> ok
[21:12:09] <wired> agenda: http://dpaste.com/122485/
[21:12:30] <yngwin> thanks
[21:12:32] <wired> read it while i clean it up a bit
[21:13:00] <ayoy> what about starting from Qt since KDE has a lot to talk about?
[21:13:52] <PSYCHO___> Ingmar: btw are you around?
[21:14:14] <wired> updated agenda: http://dpaste.com/122486/
[21:14:36] <wired> ok lets roll
[21:14:51] <wired> 21.15 already
[21:14:58] <ayoy> true
[21:15:03] <yngwin> PSYCHO___: are you presiding?
[21:16:02] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets start
[21:16:06] <PSYCHO___> i was smashing my net a bit
[21:16:48] <wohnout> internet has swine flu
[21:17:26] <PSYCHO___> yeah looks so
[21:17:29] * wired whistles
[21:17:36] <PSYCHO___> !herd kde
[21:17:37] <Willikins> PSYCHO___: (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, ssuominen, tampakrap, tgurr, wired
[21:17:38] <mrpouet> aarfff dinner time :(
[21:17:42] <PSYCHO___> so listen up
[21:18:08] <PSYCHO___> anyone of you did read that mail from Ingmar? or you just idled like usual?
[21:18:21] <tampakrap> yes we did
[21:18:22] * spatz read it
[21:18:25] * wired did read it 
[21:18:27] <dagger> i did
[21:18:36] <PSYCHO___> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.scm-interest/724
[21:18:46] <PSYCHO___> there is my response to that mail thread
[21:19:06] <tampakrap> give us a min to read
[21:19:08] <PSYCHO___> it is how i imagine layout that would suit us packagesr best
[21:20:29] *** Joins: j0 (n=quassel@g227216073.adsl.alicedsl.de)
[21:20:29] <PSYCHO___> anyway the question that waits here: "Is anyone willing to work on this?"
[21:21:15] <tampakrap> yes
[21:21:26] <tampakrap> did you get any response from upstream?
[21:21:33] <scarabeus> nope, this mail is last in that thread
[21:22:16] <tampakrap> so we are waiting until upstream responds to that first, or not?
[21:22:39] <scarabeus> actualy nope, i expect someone coordinate with ingmar and prepare full proposal to them
[21:22:55] <scarabeus> because my 6 lines about layout are not exactly "full proposal"
[21:23:00] <wired> upstream surely knew we have split kde
[21:23:11] <tampakrap> yes they do
[21:23:12] <wired> the real question is, do they really want to take this route?
[21:23:40] <scarabeus> well some stated that they would like it, some otherwise
[21:23:48] <tampakrap> i've also seen discussions about splitting in the past going nowhere (two at least) but never mind
[21:24:10] <scarabeus> well this time they are migrating to another SCM so it might have better chance to win :]
[21:24:18] <tampakrap> agreed
[21:24:42] <tampakrap> does Ingmar (ping) have anything else to say in this topic? (apart from what you said in the mail?)
[21:25:19] <scarabeus> well he is aparently not around, so the interested person will have to mail him or irc him at some better time
[21:25:30] <spatz> do binary distros (pretty much everybody) have split packages or monolithic ones?
[21:25:46] <wired> debian has them split
[21:25:52] <wired> after compilation tho
[21:25:56] <Ingmar> hello
[21:26:05] <tampakrap> they compile them in monolithic way and ship them in split way
[21:26:08] <wired> hey Ingmar 
[21:26:09] <Ingmar> scarabeus, tampakrap hi
[21:26:18] <tampakrap> hello
[21:26:54] <spatz> doesn't matter how they do it, only whether they do it. if this change forces everybody to split their packages whereas now they have monolithic ones we might face some opposition
[21:26:56] <Ingmar> scarabeus: as you said, i'd like to see upstream move to a buildsystem layout more similar to what xorg has
[21:27:19] <Ingmar> scarabeus: i'm less interested in splitting out the libs, or base, but the debian packager i talked to found that more important than anything else
[21:27:34] <tampakrap> spatz: other distros follow upstream's way, so they will be forced to change it
[21:27:36] <Ingmar> presumably because they can easily split the rest after buil
[21:27:39] <Ingmar> d
[21:27:45] <Ingmar> s/can/can & already do/
[21:28:21] <scarabeus> well from what we can say the initiative to do the thing will have to cover 2 areas) explaining what to do and how ) showing some example repo done that way
[21:29:04] <Ingmar> yeah
[21:30:04] <scarabeus> so ANY volunteers for this?
[21:30:09] <tampakrap> yes
[21:30:21] <tampakrap> and you?
[21:30:29] <scarabeus> Ingmar: also i would like to see at least one relevant upstream guy acking that we are not just wasting our time
[21:30:30] <Ingmar> I am, obviously :)
[21:31:01] <Ingmar> well, let's start with a proof of concept for one module
[21:31:04] <scarabeus> i myself will try to help
[21:31:48] <Ingmar> i'd put together a proof of cencept first & see what they say on the relevant mailinglists
[21:32:01] <scarabeus> ok that sounds reasonable
[21:32:12] <scarabeus> splitting kdenetwork or kdeedu might be quite easy
[21:32:24] <tampakrap> Ingmar: did you get any affirmative responses from other packagers (and more importantly) by any upstream developer?
[21:32:51] <Ingmar> scarabeus: i was thinking kdenetworok, so yeah :)
[21:33:09] <Ingmar> tampakrap: packagers yes (debian & gentoo, didn't ask anyone else), didn't ask any specific upstream devs
[21:33:20] <tampakrap> ok
[21:33:33] <scarabeus> Ingmar: also we should steal some irc channel to have it covered, i guess we cant chit-chat on g-kde or e-kde since its bit offtopic :]
[21:33:36] <Ingmar> on the kde-scm-interest ml, some were in favor, and some where against
[21:34:16] <scarabeus> any name ideas? :]
[21:34:39] <wired> #kde-split
[21:34:41] <Ingmar>  /j #kde-build-split :)
[21:34:48] <scarabeus> ok
[21:35:01] *** Parts: wohnout (n=wohnout@88.86.113.238)
[21:35:23] <Ingmar> anything else on the subject?
[21:35:36] <PSYCHO___> i would say that for meeting we covered it
[21:35:46] <PSYCHO___> i personaly will try to motivate few more people
[21:35:52] <PSYCHO___> but that is non-meeting subject :]
[21:36:03] <tampakrap> Ingmar: apart from kde-scn-interest ml, any other mailing lists you'd like to see us subscribed?
[21:36:55] <Ingmar> kde-buildsystem
[21:37:08] <Ingmar> well, if you have more minions, you know where to send them :)
[21:37:20] <tampakrap> okz
[21:37:41] <tampakrap> ok i think we're done with this for now
[21:37:48] <tampakrap> next topic plz?
[21:37:54] <spatz> first topic plz :)
[21:37:55] <scarabeus> tampakrap: now something qt i would say
[21:38:00] <scarabeus> since there is more qters
[21:38:09] <wired> scarabeus: lets just do the agenda?!
[21:38:27] <scarabeus> as you wish
[21:38:33] <scarabeus> ok documentation
[21:38:41] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 1: Documentation'
[21:38:43] <spatz> stabilization first
[21:38:44] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 2: Documentation'
[21:38:54] <wired> http://dpaste.com/122486/
[21:38:56] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 1: stabilisation'
[21:39:35] <PSYCHO___> ok so since only samuli is working on it with me has anyone looked on the bug
[21:39:43] <PSYCHO___> or attempted to fix blocker bugs
[21:40:04] <tampakrap> bug # plz?
[21:40:15] * wired hasn't looked at kde 4.3.3 bugs lately, but will
[21:40:25] <spatz> bgu 292455
[21:40:26] <spatz> bug 292455
[21:40:28] <Willikins> spatz: https://bugs.gentoo.org/292455 "KDE 4.3.3 stabilization request"; Gentoo Linux, Applications; NEW; ssuominen@g.o:kde@g.o
[21:40:41] <PSYCHO___> bug 2: Documentation
[21:40:43] <PSYCHO___> erm
[21:40:43] <Willikins> PSYCHO___: https://bugs.gentoo.org/2 "How do I attach an ebuild."; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; RESO, FIXE; tneidt@fidnet.com:hallski@g.o
[21:40:45] <PSYCHO___> damn this
[21:40:49] <PSYCHO___> as spatz said
[21:40:51] <wired> lolz
[21:41:02] <spatz> lol
[21:41:28] <wired> so 13 bugs
[21:41:47] <wired> i can try to help this weekend
[21:41:50] <PSYCHO___> i want each member of kde team to fix at least 1
[21:42:28] <tampakrap> 12 bugs, 3 stable req and 1 keyword req
[21:42:29] <PSYCHO___> also i want someone to look on current open bugs
[21:42:40] <PSYCHO___> and decide which should be blocking the stabling
[21:42:50] <PSYCHO___> and on this i want volunteer that will actualy do it
[21:43:05] <tampakrap> and also close the remaining kde3 bugz
[21:43:13] <spatz> we can't really do much with keyword/stable requests
[21:43:43] <PSYCHO___> are still there are normal bugs, and not all bugs are now blocking the stabilisation even if they should
[21:43:47] <PSYCHO___> so who will do it
[21:45:13] <tampakrap> ok i'll do it since noone is interested
[21:45:19] <tampakrap> meaning the bug wrangling
[21:46:11] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 2: documentation'
[21:46:12] <PSYCHO___> ok
[21:46:19] <PSYCHO___> next topic
[21:46:41] <PSYCHO___> as i stated
[21:46:54] <PSYCHO___> I want devoted person focusing on updating our documentation with nedy
[21:47:02] <mrpouet> as wired I can try to help this week end (I've an exam tomorrow and I've to finish a project)
[21:47:04] <tampakrap> yes but i disagree with that
[21:47:45] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: so how would you do the documetnation
[21:47:53] <tampakrap> everyone of us should just realize that documentation is *VERY* important and write two words before a major update or whatever
[21:48:01] <tampakrap> apart from that i have another idea that you may like
[21:48:31] *** Joins: ssuominen (n=ssuomine@gentoo/developer/ssuominen)
[21:48:38] <PSYCHO___> speak up :]
[21:48:43] <tampakrap> since guidexml requires gorg in order to have a fully rendered (human readable) doc
[21:49:15] <tampakrap> i have created an svn repo in my home server that checks out through a hook to a gorg-accessible path
[21:49:22] <tampakrap> so it can be read immediatelly
[21:49:48] <tampakrap> i can give access to the team here to my home server so we can *ALL* (and i mean ALL, even HTs) develop the guide
[21:49:56] <tampakrap> no excuses about permissions etc
[21:50:13] <tampakrap> unless you can provide us such a hook, since you have access in overlays.g.o
[21:50:14] <PSYCHO___> well that was done even on git server remember
[21:50:16] <mrpouet> I agree, so +1
[21:50:27] <PSYCHO___> i wrote complete guide in overlay as non-dev
[21:50:59] <tampakrap> yes but i'm talking about an immediate co to an xml gentoo.org-like site
[21:51:17] <tampakrap> which makes things easier
[21:51:25] <yngwin> this once again shows the shortcomings of guidexml
[21:51:42] <PSYCHO___> well ok
[21:51:48] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: you then write up something and enforce it
[21:52:01] <tampakrap> well, i don't agree with that, it shows that noone cares about docs which is sad
[21:52:38] <tampakrap> come on, i just stated something, we can proceed in voting i guess, or go in your way then
[21:53:20] <PSYCHO___> well i am willing to use it, problem is that noone else will edit it, its the same problem as is now
[21:53:36] <wired> we can give it a shot
[21:53:37] <PSYCHO___> we can keep those guides in our public_html folders to see it right-away
[21:53:39] <wired> until next meeting
[21:53:42] <PSYCHO___> but noone edit it anyway
[21:53:50] <tampakrap> that's not the same
[21:53:56] <wired> but we should *also* have someone in charge
[21:54:18] <PSYCHO___> well i wanted someone in charge
[21:54:22] <PSYCHO___> so he can say
[21:54:26] <wired> that someone would check other commits and will _in_time_ get closer to the docs team
[21:54:30] <ABCD> sorry I'm late; I forgot about the time change :(
[21:54:31] <tampakrap> i could be in charge of docs since i am the main editor a while now, but i don't like this idea
[21:54:36] <PSYCHO___> You XY wrote module for AB but did not document it, so do it now.
[21:55:12] <PSYCHO___> so actualy devs introducing something new will be somehow forced to do the docs
[21:55:38] <PSYCHO___> because "anyone does docs and we are happy" simply is NOT working
[21:55:43] <tampakrap> the problem is that we don't update the docs BEFORE the change (minor or major)
[21:56:31] <PSYCHO___> well that would be responsibility of doc master, to point when and what needs to be changed
[21:56:35] <tampakrap> and that won't change by itself, even if we could write the docs in speech-to-text app
[21:57:22] <PSYCHO___> i dont expect the lead to do the work, but delegate to other devs, and if those wont document, i am even willing to remove them from team
[21:57:31] <tampakrap> okay i could do that but i'd expect from the members to respect more the documentation part
[21:58:31] <tampakrap> okay if noone has a problem with that then i'll take charge of this position
[21:58:40] *** Quits: ayoy (n=ayoy@gentoo/developer/ayoy) (Remote closed the connection)
[21:58:52] <wired> tampakrap++
[21:58:53] *** Joins: ayoy (n=ayoy@cs78245237.pp.htv.fi)
[21:58:53] <PSYCHO___> ok
[21:59:06] <tampakrap> i'll also introduce my system to gentoo-desktop mailing list (i hope devs+HT's are subscribed there)
[21:59:09] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: huh ? remove them from team ? for that ? (I agree document is an important thing does not matter) ... but blame them instead
[21:59:23] <wired> while we're on the docs subject, note that I'm taking care of Qt docs
[21:59:27] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 3: upstream coordination'
[21:59:32] <tampakrap> mrpouet: it is even more important that coding
[21:59:42] <tampakrap> just recall what hapened when we masked kdeprefix
[21:59:46] <mrpouet> I meant it's a bit....excessive
[21:59:51] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: its seriously important for users
[21:59:56] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: and we present our work to users
[22:00:00] <mrpouet> tampakrap: I said that I was agree :]
[22:00:02] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: we need to be 100% covered there
[22:00:22] <mrpouet> (document is important) but the consequence is.... excessive imho
[22:00:41] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: now noone cared, so i will be really evil until they start to care
[22:00:52] <wired> well
[22:00:55] <wired> i must say
[22:01:04] <wired> docs have always been one huge strength of gentoo
[22:01:08] *** Joins: Pesa (n=Pesa@bluemchen.kde.org)
[22:01:13] <wired> and lately they're degrading fast
[22:01:15] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: sadistic :P
[22:01:17] <wired> so I like this initiative
[22:01:29] <wired> lets bring them back :)
[22:01:42] <Pesa> hello :)
[22:01:49] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets loko onto the next toppic
[22:01:51] <wired> second late to the party
[22:01:57] <wired> :D
[22:02:01] <PSYCHO___> as i can see some people had really the problem with TZ
[22:02:02] <PSYCHO___> :D
[22:02:05] <spatz> Pesa: hi :)
[22:02:12] <PSYCHO___> Pesa: or you know that you are 1h late? :P
[22:02:17] <Pesa> uhm...
[22:02:20] <Pesa> 1h :O
[22:02:25] <wired> he does not
[22:02:27] <wired> date -u
[22:02:29] <wired> Pesa: ^^
[22:02:32] <Pesa> damn! timezone :s
[22:02:43] <ABCD> Pesa: I had the same issue :D
[22:02:43] <Pesa> sorry 
[22:02:50] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets get to the topic :]
[22:02:56] <wired> you'll read logs, lets go!
[22:03:09] <PSYCHO___> who is willing to track upstream patches, and apply them where required
[22:03:10] <Pesa> yep
[22:03:30] <mrpouet> wired: or do like me, have a linux clock setting up to UTC :D
[22:03:43] <PSYCHO___> this requires also requesting backports from TRUNK to branch on upstream
[22:04:50] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: you meant a unique guy ? other devs can't import patches from upstream ?
[22:05:03] <mrpouet> (it's ambigous)
[22:05:11] <PSYCHO___> they can, but should coordinate with him
[22:05:14] <mrpouet> (at least for me with my fuc*$*$$* english)
[22:05:16] <PSYCHO___> it can be even more people
[22:05:29] <PSYCHO___> the point is that we would have the patches applied where needed
[22:05:34] <PSYCHO___> in both overlay/tree
[22:05:57] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: mhhh... personally I could be interested
[22:06:01] <jmbsvicetto> Hello
[22:06:05] <wired> boss!
[22:06:06] <jmbsvicetto> sorry for being late
[22:06:08] <mrpouet> jmbsvicetto: hi
[22:06:09] <mrpouet> :)
[22:06:09] <PSYCHO___> currently we mostly wait on upstream to release new version
[22:06:11] <wired> welcome jmbsvicetto 
[22:06:14] <PSYCHO___> hello boss
[22:07:09] <jmbsvicetto> Hi everyone
[22:07:16] <PSYCHO___> ok, come on guys, he is half gnome, at least one more volunteer ;]
[22:07:20] <PSYCHO___> its not that hard job :]
[22:07:30] <tampakrap> i could help but not that much
[22:07:36] <tampakrap> because i am mostly trunk user
[22:08:00] <jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: what's up?
[22:08:08] <jmbsvicetto> :(
[22:08:10] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: it's not an argument :p
[22:08:16] <wired> jmbsvicetto: you want log so far?
[22:08:17] <jmbsvicetto> Am I 1 hour late?? :|
[22:08:18] <PSYCHO___> i want someone to coordinate patches with upstream :]
[22:08:20] <mrpouet> I'm half gnome... and ? :D
[22:08:21] <PSYCHO___> someone dedicated :]
[22:08:22] <wired> jmbsvicetto: you are :P
[22:08:49] * jmbsvicetto failed to read UTC :\
[22:09:05] <jmbsvicetto> wired: yes, please (logs)
[22:09:30] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ok i'll wgetpaste then hold on
[22:09:49] <tampakrap> PSYCHO___: reavertm and ABCD would be perfect for this i guess
[22:09:49] <PSYCHO___> ABCD: how about you? dont want to do this? :]
[22:10:02] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: exactly my thinking, but reaver is not around now
[22:10:47] <PSYCHO___> the silence after i ask someone something :D hilarious
[22:11:12] <ABCD> PSYCHO___: that would mean I'd actually have to figure out if commits to trunk are relevant/apply on the 4.3 branch...
[22:11:22] <ABCD> (which means more work :( )
[22:11:26] <mrpouet> btw, after this topic, I've another one (tiny)
[22:12:00] <tampakrap> trunk after .70 is 90% incompatible with current branch
[22:12:19] <mrpouet> (I'm pretty sure you will agree, but I wanted to talk about that during meeting anyway)
[22:12:28] <wired> jmbsvicetto: http://dpaste.com/122503/
[22:12:30] <PSYCHO___> ABCD: i mean more watch what bugs they fix, and ask them to patch it for branch too
[22:13:02] <PSYCHO___> something like "i know you fixed crash X for trunk, but the error is in branch too, so could you fix it too so others dont have to wait for 4 months?"
[22:13:05] <jmbsvicetto> wired: thanks
[22:13:28] <PSYCHO___> and second responsibility would be just applying what users add to bugzilla as patches from upstream
[22:13:39] <PSYCHO___> deciding if it is worth or not and so on
[22:13:45] <ABCD> PSYCHO___: so long as someone files a Gentoo bug, and mentions the upstream bug; otherwise I'd never find it :)
[22:13:48] <PSYCHO___> i dont expect that person to review all commits
[22:13:59] <PSYCHO___> ABCD: thats the idea :]
[22:14:09] <PSYCHO___> i dont expect you to browse the upstream one ;]
[22:14:20] <ABCD> in that case, it shouldn't be too difficult
[22:14:58] <PSYCHO___> i know, i just want someone to do it
[22:15:07] <PSYCHO___> so i wont meet 20 days open bug with patch from upstream
[22:15:29] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 4: kde3 removal'
[22:15:39] <PSYCHO___> ssuominen: around?
[22:15:50] <PSYCHO___> ok as you might noticed kde3 is going away
[22:15:56] <tampakrap> next topic, ssuominen is in progress of it :P
[22:15:57] <PSYCHO___> its quite flawless i can say
[22:16:04] * tampakrap points at #-commits
[22:16:09] <PSYCHO___> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde3almostgone.png
[22:16:09] <wired> wave your hands while you still can
[22:16:19] <wired> its going awayyyyyyyyyyyy
[22:16:19] <PSYCHO___> this is what it did to our bugs
[22:16:27] <PSYCHO___> so i want to hear one thing only here
[22:16:34] <PSYCHO___> is something more required on that matter from us?
[22:17:17] <wired> nothing i can think of
[22:17:26] <PSYCHO___> me neither
[22:17:30] <wired> ssuominen is really doing a great job with this
[22:17:31] <PSYCHO___> thats why i wanted ask others
[22:17:40] <ABCD> bye-bye bugs :D
[22:17:57] <PSYCHO___> wontfix closing is fast :P but dont get used to it :D
[22:18:10] <wired> :D
[22:18:20] <wired> lets go to RDEPENDs
[22:18:22] * tampakrap is waiting for kde5 - kde4-removal
[22:18:41] <wired> tampakrap: go ahead and write kde5 then!
[22:18:42] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: boss its your area
[22:18:52] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: so elaborate why rdepend use deps are bad
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[22:19:36] <PSYCHO___> okeey, anyone else? :]
[22:19:41] <wired> :P
[22:19:51] <wired> i personally like use flags for rdepends
[22:20:06] <wired> but i'd like to hear why they're bad from those who don't
[22:20:13] * PSYCHO___ dont care, einfo was always enough for me
[22:20:17] <PSYCHO___> wired: well it is poluting the ebuild
[22:20:21] <PSYCHO___> they are not entirely required
[22:20:27] <wired> its not pollution
[22:20:31] <PSYCHO___> so einfo with install X for feature Y
[22:20:42] <wired> its only a few words and its helping you do things pre-emerge
[22:20:50] <PSYCHO___> wired: if you stabilise package, it is polution, if you have to wait on optional rdepend to be stabilised
[22:21:07] <wired> in that case
[22:21:12] <wired> lets work on a per case basis
[22:21:41] <wired> for example, obvious or important rdepends could go in use flags, others in info
[22:21:46] <PSYCHO___> that actualy might work
[22:22:33] <wired> if an rdepend disables/enables half the package's functionality, it should definately have a USE
[22:22:45] <wired> if its a hidden option in the 3rd menu from the right
[22:22:53] <wired> it could live without it :P
[22:22:56] *** Quits: pontecorvo (n=pontecor@93-183-229-187-dynamic.retail.datagroup.ua) (Remote closed the connection)
[22:23:35] <wired> but we *must* make sure we have einfo if we don't have USE
[22:23:36] <wired> make it policy
[22:23:41] <PSYCHO___> thats sound sane
[22:24:05] <tampakrap> agreed
[22:24:12] <tampakrap> add to CODE maybe?
[22:24:15] <wired> yeah
[22:24:27] <wired> oh sorry
[22:24:30] *** Joins: pontecorvo (n=pontecor@93-183-229-187-dynamic.retail.datagroup.ua)
[22:24:30] <wired> yeah, *docs* man
[22:24:40] <PSYCHO___> ok someone can grab it from summary later then
[22:24:41] <wired> :D
[22:24:41] <PSYCHO___> :]
[22:24:41] <jmbsvicetto> sorry, reading backlog
[22:24:51] <tampakrap> i would kick you now, but we are in meeting
[22:25:04] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: not entirely smart thing to do during continuous meeting :D
[22:25:16] <jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: It isn't that rdepend use flags are bad, it's just that there are too many
[22:25:34] <jmbsvicetto> at least it used to be too many -> quanta was the best/worst(?) example
[22:25:53] <tampakrap> yes, because we are following upstream
[22:26:24] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: well thats why it is per decision basics
[22:26:33] <PSYCHO___> svn plugin can be controled by svn useflag
[22:26:34] <jmbsvicetto> wired / PSYCHO___: I'm not sure they cause so many issues when marking it stable
[22:26:46] <jmbsvicetto> we can always have a use flag masked in a profile
[22:26:50] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: I DO, i try to stable such package right now
[22:27:05] <PSYCHO___> :P
[22:27:09] <jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: I was trying to catch something ;)
[22:27:16] <wired> i think what i said above is good as a rule of thumb
[22:27:43] <wired> devs should decide per case depending on the importance of the deps
[22:27:47] <wired> so we don't end up with 30 RDEPEND USE flags
[22:27:48] <wired> :p
[22:27:54] <jmbsvicetto> I don't have a problem with a case-by-case, but then we'll get a bug for each package that we don't provide a use flag :P
[22:28:18] <tampakrap> wontfix, because that's how we want it
[22:28:34] <tampakrap> or fix, because we did a second thought
[22:28:38] * jmbsvicetto puts user cloak: I want use flag X for installing package Z when I install package Y!!!
[22:28:46] <PSYCHO___> http://www.pastebin.cz/26457
[22:29:06] <wired> jmbsvicetto: we already have wontfix bugs like that
[22:29:08] <jmbsvicetto> Ingmar: I'll try to poke you later, but I'm also interested in upstream's work on splitting KDE
[22:29:11] <PSYCHO___> its up to us, not user decision
[22:29:16] <jmbsvicetto> yes, I know
[22:30:28] <PSYCHO___> ok, i guess we covered our last point
[22:30:34] <PSYCHO___> so lets move to qt issues :]
[22:30:37] <wired> w8
[22:30:39] <tampakrap> wait plz
[22:30:49] <wired> mrpouet has sth to add
[22:31:04] <PSYCHO___> hm?
[22:31:11] <wired> or had :P
[22:31:15] <wired> mrpouet: u here?
[22:31:21] <tampakrap> i have to say something too
[22:31:36] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: then speak :]
[22:31:38] <wired> go ahead
[22:31:42] <tampakrap> i'll start since mrpouet is somewhere else :P
[22:32:13] <tampakrap> recently i fixed a bunch of live ebuilds, reported issues, patches etc
[22:33:07] <tampakrap> since i recompile kde and qt live packages very frequently, i would like your permission to create a doc which will track live ebuilds' upstream and downstream bugs, etc
[22:33:15] <tampakrap> which are broken and need love etc
[22:33:43] <tampakrap> if you think that a doc is not appropriate i could do a page in gentoo-wiki for example
[22:34:11] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: go ahead, try to motivate some non-team people to help you
[22:34:18] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: so you can recruit your minions ;P
[22:34:30] <wired> on that note, we could create a script
[22:34:31] <tampakrap> no way, you are the ht lead
[22:34:34] <wired> that picks up your daily rebuild
[22:34:44] <wired> and generates a webpage of what failed and what worked
[22:34:45] <wired> :p
[22:34:52] <PSYCHO___> you mean something like dirk-dashboard?
[22:34:52] <ayoy> ;]
[22:34:57] <ayoy> contonuous integration
[22:34:57] <PSYCHO___> or something like bump-tool?
[22:35:07] <PSYCHO___> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/vystup.html
[22:35:08] <spatz> something like buildbot?
[22:35:27] <tampakrap> a script that takes logs and uploads them somewhere
[22:35:29] <wired> something like that PSYCHO___ 
[22:35:45] <wired> like the thing gnomies have
[22:35:49] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: well do it if you want it
[22:35:55] <wired> i can create a custom script if we don't have something ready
[22:36:03] <tampakrap> we don't
[22:36:05] <tampakrap> ok ok
[22:36:09] <tampakrap> covered
[22:36:11] <wired> just give me the logs :P
[22:36:28] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets moove to the qt since mrpouet is not around
[22:36:36] <tampakrap> wait a minute
[22:36:47] <tampakrap> it seems not covered
[22:37:06] <tampakrap> wired: the script would be usuable if it could automatically take the build.logs from the failed packages
[22:37:11] <tampakrap> and upload them somewhere
[22:37:33] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: its not entirely meeting material, and we have meeting already for 1h30minutes... just discuss this with wired on -kde afterwards :]
[22:37:33] <wired> yeah
[22:37:37] <tampakrap> and we can add a comment next to each one of them, like upstream bug or whatever
[22:37:39] <wired> we'll talk about it off list
[22:37:43] <wired> off meeting*
[22:37:43] <tampakrap> ok ok
[22:37:51] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 1: qt mono package'
[22:37:58] <ayoy> !herd qt
[22:38:00] <Willikins> (qt) abcd, ayoy, carlo, hwoarang, spatz, tampakrap, wired, yngwin
[22:38:14] <tampakrap> surprisingly i am here
[22:38:21] <wired> one of our biggest issues
[22:38:26] <wired> with the split ebuilds
[22:38:29] <wired> the USE flag madness
[22:38:31] <wired> is now solved
[22:38:38] <wired> because anything < 4.5.3 is off the tree
[22:38:41] <ayoy> \ö/
[22:38:41] <tampakrap> lol, when?
[22:38:54] <yngwin> i still see people struggling with it
[22:39:03] <ayoy> because they are updating to 4.5.3, not?
[22:39:11] <yngwin> yes
[22:39:12] <ABCD> yay
[22:39:19] <ayoy> once they update, we're done with this shit
[22:39:29] <wired> so its solved from our side
[22:39:50] <wired> the only thing left is the Qt update blocker madness
[22:40:01] <wired> but i think people are beginning to understand that b blocks are autosolvable
[22:40:05] <yngwin> but we'll still have to support latecomers for a long time
[22:40:28] <spatz> we'll have to support latecomers no matter what
[22:40:39] <wired> yngwin: agreed, but that doesn't really change anything if we merge splits into a monolithic
[22:40:45] <wired> s/anything//
[22:41:05] <yngwin> it would, but anyway
[22:41:28] <wired> i mean, they'd still have to do some migration work
[22:41:38] <ayoy> like update with no blockers
[22:41:40] <ayoy> :)
[22:42:06] <yngwin> yes, but that would be clearer than the current mess with blockers and useflags - portage is just not giving very clear feedback to users
[22:42:20] <wired> i agree with the feedback thing
[22:42:45] <wired> but with the useflags issue _mostly_ gone, do you feel the blockers are good enough a reason to change things?
[22:42:52] <ABCD> well, we could say that that's a portage bug ;)
[22:43:09] <yngwin> it is mostly a portage problem yes
[22:43:16] <spatz> xorg packages, for example, don't have blockers for maximum versions, only minimal, so users see less blockers
[22:43:18] <PSYCHO___> well portage should shut up about autosolved blocks
[22:43:20] <yngwin> but we'll have to work with portage
[22:43:29] <PSYCHO___> i dont understand why it writes them out
[22:43:36] <spatz> qt has both maximum and minimum version blockers and that's creating weird issues
[22:43:39] <PSYCHO___> most users get only confused
[22:43:43] <wired> imo the right way to do this is fix portage
[22:43:58] <wired> i really want to get into portage development but i just can't these days
[22:44:01] *** Joins: tampakrap_ (n=tampakra@ppp-94-66-145-248.home.otenet.gr)
[22:44:01] <Sput> why do we need maximum version blockers?
[22:44:04] <wired> i am considering doing so in the future
[22:44:16] <Sput> downgrading Qt isn't really supported anyway
[22:44:31] <wired> Sput: you can't mix Qt versions
[22:44:35] <spatz> Sput: to make sure user has exactly the same version of all packages
[22:44:35] <ayoy> Sput: mixing versions anyhow is neither
[22:44:36] <wired> period :P
[22:44:46] <Pesa> wired: i'd like to too ;)
[22:44:51] <Sput> yes, but the common case is upgrade, yes?
[22:45:01] <spatz> again, see xorg use case
[22:45:01] <yngwin> to my mind this shows why we need monolithic
[22:45:06] <PSYCHO___> something like MDEPEND
[22:45:07] <spatz> downgrading doesn't usually work either
[22:45:08] <Sput> so minimum blockers would be enough to force all qt packages be updated if one is updated
[22:45:12] <PSYCHO___> if package is around then require this version
[22:45:16] <PSYCHO___> otherwise do not care
[22:45:18] <PSYCHO___> so called
[22:45:22] <PSYCHO___> MAGIC DEPENDENCY
[22:45:29] <ayoy> :)
[22:45:38] <spatz> with only minimum blocks users won't get blockers
[22:45:49] <PSYCHO___> come on its exactly what you want, that might be actualy easy to do with current code
[22:45:55] <PSYCHO___> it will just need new eapi :/
[22:46:24] <wired> PSYCHO___: current code can't do it, i've tried to express it with complex bash but it still shells out blockers
[22:46:27] <wired> we need new depend type
[22:46:30] <yngwin> anyway, we said we'd discuss it on ML, which as far as i can see has not happened
[22:46:43] <wired> it did not
[22:46:44] <PSYCHO___> wired: i said so, new depend type MDEPEND
[22:46:49] <wired> PSYCHO___++
[22:46:57] <yngwin> who wants to start the ML discussion?
[22:46:58] <PSYCHO___> and it is easy to adjust
[22:47:00] <PSYCHO___> the portage code
[22:47:04] <PSYCHO___> about this
[22:47:13] <wired> yngwin: I can
[22:47:19] <yngwin> great
[22:47:22] <yngwin> next topic
[22:47:35] <wired> status of qt-tng
[22:47:42] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 2: Status of new qt-tng.eclass'
[22:47:56] <ayoy> I've been reviewing it for last 1,5 hours
[22:47:59] <yngwin> hwoarang said he couldnt continue with this because of circumstances
[22:48:10] <yngwin> i think it's ready
[22:48:12] <wired> yes so are we happy with it enough to post it in -dev?
[22:48:26] <ayoy> provided that we remove prepare_translations?
[22:48:45] <ayoy> this one seems not so handy
[22:48:52] <ayoy> tries to address a common case
[22:48:58] <yngwin> let's prepare the eclass for qt@ before sending it off to -dev
[22:48:59] <ayoy> but the common case doesn't really exist
[22:49:06] <Pesa> except there isn't a common case :)
[22:49:14] <wired> so lets remove that
[22:49:21] <ayoy> I will
[22:49:23] <yngwin> yes, we already said that
[22:49:38] <Pesa> ok
[22:49:47] <yngwin> ok, ayoy, can you finalize the eclass and send it to qt@ ?
[22:49:47] <ayoy> hey, btw
[22:49:48] *** Quits: tampakrap (n=tuxicity@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:49:56] <ayoy> yngwin: yes I can
[22:50:15] <wired> great
[22:50:18] <yngwin> then we can all have a look and comment if needed, then send it to -dev
[22:50:21] <ayoy> are we all happy with the eclass name?
[22:50:26] * ayoy is not
[22:50:29] <yngwin> not really
[22:50:36] <wired> ayoy: i talked with picard the other day, he said he liked it
[22:50:36] <PSYCHO___> you already voted on it, but didnt decide anything
[22:50:39] <Pesa> i am not but i don't really care
[22:50:41] <ayoy> qt4-edge kicks testicals very hard, I like it
[22:50:51] <wired> not -edge
[22:50:54] <wired> we need that for overlay
[22:51:03] <yngwin> qt4v2
[22:51:03] <wired> else we'll have to start overriding and crap
[22:51:11] <ayoy> wired: you mean that qt4-edge will stay in overlay?
[22:51:17] <yngwin> we need eclass versioning dammit
[22:51:26] <Pesa> yngwin++
[22:51:31] <wired> ayoy: yes, we need to keep developing there, don't we? :P
[22:51:37] <ayoy> we do
[22:51:43] <wired> yngwin: indeed
[22:51:44] <yngwin> indeed, wired is right
[22:51:53] <spatz> I propose qt4-next :/
[22:51:58] <PSYCHO___> qt42morow
[22:51:58] <ayoy> better :)
[22:52:03] <wired> qt4-v2
[22:52:08] <PSYCHO___> read it ^
[22:52:10] <ayoy> qt4evar
[22:52:11] <PSYCHO___> in english
[22:52:16] <wired> PSYCHO___: we did :P
[22:52:33] <PSYCHO___> :]
[22:52:41] <PSYCHO___> qt4-blesmrt
[22:52:42] <PSYCHO___> :]
[22:52:43] <wired> qt4-r2
[22:52:45] <spatz> ok, let's not waste time on bikesheds
[22:52:50] <wired> ^^ in the gentoo spirit
[22:52:54] <spatz> lol
[22:52:56] <ayoy> :)
[22:53:09] <yngwin> i like that, wired
[22:53:10] <spatz> this meeting is already taking 2 hours :/
[22:53:16] <ayoy> let's move on
[22:53:17] * spatz likes it too
[22:53:23] <wired> :D
[22:53:25] * ayoy too
[22:53:25] <PSYCHO___> so name unchanged
[22:53:27] <PSYCHO___> ?
[22:53:28] <yngwin> ok, qt4-r2.eclass
[22:53:30] <ayoy> no, changed
[22:53:41] <yngwin> next topic
[22:53:46] <wired> w00t, we got rid of startrek
[22:53:47] <wired> ok 3.
[22:53:50] <wired> #gentoo-qt
[22:53:52] <wired> do we want it?
[22:53:58] <tampakrap_> plz no
[22:54:01] <spatz> no
[22:54:02] <yngwin> i dont see the need
[22:54:02] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 3: #gentoo-qt'
[22:54:05] <ayoy> I'd say we rather need a separate meeting
[22:54:09] <ayoy> than a separate channel
[22:54:11] <wired> its already registered and when i was bored I added permissions
[22:54:18] <wired> so if you ever feel like it
[22:54:18] <wired> :)
[22:54:24] <tampakrap_> ok, but plz no
[22:54:26] <tampakrap_> :)
[22:54:47] <wired> i think -kde is fine as well, but its there if we need it
[22:54:50] <spatz> ok, so we all agree on 'no'
[22:54:57] <tampakrap_> neeeext
[22:55:01] <yngwin> let's keep it
[22:55:01] <spatz> ok, we have a backup for a nuclear war or sth
[22:55:06] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 4: einfo mess'
[22:55:12] <wired> 4.
[22:55:13] <yngwin> but we'll continue to use -kde for the time being
[22:55:18] <spatz> it was already cleared out yesterday
[22:55:23] <spatz> by wired
[22:55:23] <wired> btw DONT RUSH
[22:55:32] <wired> :D
[22:55:37] <spatz> the messages only show for qt-core now
[22:55:37] <ayoy> qt-core only
[22:55:37] <ayoy> ?
[22:55:38] <spatz> so I think it's better
[22:55:41] <ayoy> awesome
[22:55:41] <tampakrap_> tommy[d] complaint many times about this warning overload
[22:55:48] <wired> tampakrap_: i already fixed it
[22:55:51] <wired> confined it to qt-core
[22:55:54] <yngwin> yes, change was committed yesterday
[22:55:56] <ayoy> ok, I love it
[22:56:02] <tampakrap_> cool
[22:56:05] <spatz> we can (and should) shorten the text, but it's much less spam now
[22:56:10] <wired> yeah
[22:56:10] <yngwin> if any more cutting is needed, let us know
[22:56:15] <wired> like 11 times less
[22:56:18] <spatz> lol
[22:56:19] <ayoy> :)
[22:56:21] <spatz> great, so next
[22:56:24] <wired> 5.
[22:56:25] <wired> gitorious
[22:56:30] <PSYCHO___> wait
[22:56:32] <yngwin> we could look at the text again
[22:56:38] <yngwin> see if it can be shortened
[22:56:40] <spatz> only downside is no commit bot coolness
[22:57:02] <wired> yngwin: i can do it
[22:57:09] <yngwin> i also like the suggestion to put it in out docs and refer in einfo to our docs page
[22:57:34] <yngwin> wired: ok, do it and let us know what you come up with
[22:57:34] <wired> thats not bad either
[22:57:38] <wired> k
[22:57:41] <wired> will mail qt@
[22:57:47] <tampakrap_> i'll do the docs btw
[22:57:48] <spatz> oooh I like that
[22:57:53] <yngwin> alright
[22:57:53] <ayoy> ok then
[22:57:55] <spatz> no one thought otherwise :)
[22:57:57] <ayoy> why not github?
[22:58:04] <yngwin> next topic
[22:58:11] <wired> tampakrap_: i'll do the Qt docs
[22:58:13] <spatz> many ppl don't have github accounts but want overlay access
[22:58:17] <wired> keep it split so we actually do something
[22:58:24] <ayoy> they can create
[22:58:25] <ayoy> or die
[22:58:37] <spatz> and gitorious is the new black, or something
[22:58:45] <ayoy> oh
[22:58:48] * ayoy checks
[22:58:53] <yngwin> i like gitorious because you an have more people administer the repo
[22:59:03] <yngwin> can*
[22:59:06] <spatz> it's better in most ways, except cia.vc integration
[22:59:12] <spatz> I like the bot we have in #-kde
[22:59:13] <wired> the only real disadvantage is cia
[22:59:17] <wired> do we care enough?
[22:59:17] <yngwin> i am now the bus factor for github
[22:59:18] <ayoy> yngwin: good point
[22:59:38] <tampakrap_> no
[22:59:40] <wired> i mean kde doesn't have cia either, big deal
[22:59:41] <ayoy> I do only a bit 
[22:59:58] <yngwin> not really, cia bot is nice, but there are other ways
[23:00:04] <wired> i like the cia wow factor as well, but if gitorious is better/more reliable/more popular
[23:00:09] <ayoy> like capslock
[23:00:11] <tampakrap_> my commit number got too high because of qting-edge, i almost lost my gentoo/slacker cloak
[23:00:13] <wired> lets go there and switch the hooks to keep github in sync
[23:00:25] <ayoy> hey hey
[23:00:26] <ayoy> btw
[23:00:26] <ayoy> !
[23:00:36] <ayoy> if we switch to gitorious
[23:00:41] <ayoy> we still have github as a backup, no?
[23:00:47] <ayoy> we still have the bot
[23:00:50] <ayoy> period.
[23:00:54] <wired> right
[23:00:56] <tampakrap_> touche
[23:00:58] <wired> ayoy++
[23:00:58] <Pesa> heh right
[23:01:00] <spatz> new ppl who only have gitorious access won't be able to push to github
[23:01:02] <ayoy> lol
[23:01:02] <ayoy> :)
[23:01:10] <wired> spatz: no issues, we'll push for them
[23:01:10] <spatz> so not really
[23:01:13] <PSYCHO___> so vote for it
[23:01:22] <yngwin> yes, vote
[23:01:27] <PSYCHO___> as in topic it is named as voting for gitorious as main repo
[23:01:28] <tampakrap_> gitorious
[23:01:30] <wired> +1 gitorious
[23:01:40] <spatz> ok then, +1 gitorious
[23:01:46] <yngwin> gitorious
[23:01:46] <ayoy> gitorious + github as backup
[23:01:54] * spatz switches url order in .git/config
[23:02:17] <yngwin> ABCD?
[23:02:29] <ABCD> abstain
[23:02:33] <yngwin> ok
[23:02:37] <tampakrap_> btw can we do the same trick with kde-testing to get cia bot there as well?
[23:02:53] <Pesa> lol
[23:03:00] <wired> only if people actually push to gitorious as well
[23:03:06] <wired> better poke PSYCHO___ to fix it
[23:03:07] <wired> :p
[23:03:08] <spatz> you mean github
[23:03:12] <wired> yeah
[23:03:13] <wired> :D
[23:03:22] <spatz> if git.o.g.o has cia integration you don't have to
[23:03:23] <PSYCHO___> ok last topic
[23:03:25] <wired> s/gitorious/github/
[23:03:26] <yngwin> so we need to make an announcement about that, to push to gitorious as main repo, and change layman url
[23:04:05] <yngwin> any volunteers?
[23:04:12] <wired> announcement in like -dev? qt2?
[23:04:13] <wired> qt@?
[23:04:21] <yngwin> qt@
[23:04:27] <wired> i'll do it
[23:04:30] <ayoy> no big deal :)
[23:05:08] <wired> im Qt PR
[23:05:09] <wired> :p
[23:05:09] <PSYCHO___> last topic: removal of changelogs from overlay
[23:05:15] <wired> that one was mine
[23:05:17] <yngwin> also proj page
[23:05:39] <wired> lets remove them, they keep breaking my nerves, git logs are enough!
[23:05:48] <yngwin> NO
[23:05:48] <spatz> wired++
[23:05:58] <wired> seriously
[23:06:02] <ayoy> why not?
[23:06:05] <wired> i can't stand them, overlays shouldnt have changelogs
[23:06:10] <wired> duplicate info
[23:06:15] <yngwin> qting-edge is also a training area for new recruits / devs-to-be
[23:06:35] <wired> yngwin: most overlays are
[23:06:37] <yngwin> it's good practice to get used to using echangelog
[23:06:43] <ayoy> yngwin++
[23:06:44] <wired> yngwin: repoman will scream anyway
[23:06:53] <PSYCHO___> repoman wont scream
[23:06:57] <ayoy> it doesn't
[23:06:58] <spatz> I think that's the least of the recruit's problems
[23:07:01] <yngwin> yes, that is why my policy is to use echangelog in all overlays
[23:07:02] <wired> spatz++
[23:07:07] <spatz> it doesn't scream, it warns
[23:07:10] *** Quits: nirbheek (n=nirbheek@gentoo/developer/nirbheek) ("Gone.")
[23:07:10] <PSYCHO___> repoman ignores changelogs for distributed scms
[23:07:14] <PSYCHO___> spatz: ^
[23:07:17] <wired> PSYCHO___: i meant in cvs
[23:07:20] <spatz> recruits should be taught to read repoman's warnings :)
[23:07:22] <PSYCHO___> spatz: i wrote the code to portage, so i know about its behaviour
[23:07:32] <spatz> I mean when they commit to the tree
[23:07:36] <yngwin> as long as portage is using cvs and echangelog, i want us to use it in the overlay
[23:07:47] <wired> i really don't like it, i forget it because this is the only overlay we use changelogs
[23:07:47] <wired> from the ones i use
[23:07:51] <yngwin> echangelog that is, not cs :p
[23:07:55] <yngwin> cvs*
[23:07:59] <spatz> lol
[23:08:15] <spatz> can we vote or do you veto?
[23:08:19] <tampakrap_> for the record i agree with wired
[23:08:21] <PSYCHO___> :D
[23:08:27] <wired> i'd like a vote for this
[23:08:28] <wired> :)
[23:08:40] <yngwin> also, for users who checkout the overlay, they may expect changelogs
[23:08:45] <yngwin> i would, anyway
[23:08:56] <spatz> no overlay has changelogs, so why would they?
[23:08:57] *** Quits: krakonos (n=krakonos@kangaroo.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) (Client Quit)
[23:09:07] <ayoy> I'm for changelogs in the overlay
[23:09:09] <wired> yngwin: well users are educated to git log or visit gitweb these days, thanks to kde-testing :P
[23:09:14] <yngwin> because portage does
[23:09:47] <wired> besides, git log is blazingly fast, its not like you have to cvs log :p
[23:10:02] <ayoy> echangelog in git is also fast
[23:10:06] <ayoy> ;]
[23:10:07] <yngwin> most users dont know how to handle git
[23:10:20] <PSYCHO___> plz vote and end, i want to go to shower
[23:10:23] <wired> ayoy: sure, but when you don't echangelog in most overlays
[23:10:24] <spatz> they can use the gitorious web-ui
[23:10:27] <wired> you tend to forget
[23:10:37] <ayoy> wired: then add echangelogs to other overlays
[23:10:39] <yngwin> PSYCHO___: s/vote/veto/
[23:10:42] <ayoy> :)
[23:10:56] <wired> meh
[23:11:02] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: me dont care you are no longer subproject and you are lead, so it is up to you
[23:11:17] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: 2 months ago i could veto your veto but now it is entirely up to you :D
[23:11:22] <wired> lol
[23:11:24] <ayoy> lol :D
[23:11:35] <yngwin> i want better arguments than "I'm too lazy"
[23:11:36] <tampakrap_> yngwin: we hate you
[23:11:44] <wired> yngwin: its not im lazy
[23:11:48] <yngwin> tampakrap_: i'm honoured
[23:11:53] <tampakrap_> it's that i am lazy
[23:11:54] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: fucked up 3way merge strategy
[23:11:58] <wired> its dup info, no real advantages :)
[23:12:03] <wired> anyway
[23:12:12] <PSYCHO___> we dropped it because it breaks merges a lot
[23:12:17] <spatz> it was invented to overcome VCS shortcomings we no longer have
[23:12:27] <ayoy> who merges anything in qting-edge?
[23:12:29] <yngwin> we still have in portage
[23:12:34] <ayoy> I've seen it once maybe
[23:12:39] <wired> yngwin: portage is cvs, we need it there
[23:12:45] <tampakrap_> yes, better spend the echangelog time to help portage to move to git i'd say :P
[23:12:45] <spatz> because it still has to deal with those shortcomings - we don't
[23:13:09] <spatz> when the tree moves to git the changelogs would probably be thrown out the window
[23:13:11] <yngwin> wired: yes, and i want the overlay to be similar
[23:13:25] <ayoy> then we will remove them as well
[23:13:27] <ayoy> ofc....
[23:13:29] * PSYCHO___ throws the orange duck from one hand to another and looks on the clock
[23:13:32] <tampakrap_> still, cvs commit progress is *very* different from git commit process
[23:13:38] <spatz> PSYCHO___: it's yellow!
[23:13:46] <PSYCHO___> not this one
[23:13:49] <wired> yngwin: if recruits can't handle that difference between qting-edge and cvs, then they shouldn't be devs, really :P
[23:13:51] <ayoy> it's Czech duck
[23:14:10] <yngwin> hmm, there is something to that
[23:14:13] <spatz> so it has weird dots and lines all over and above it?
[23:14:58] <tampakrap_> ok i have to go, don't care that much about this subject :P
[23:15:01] <spatz> ok, let's give yngwin time to think about this and wrap this party up
[23:15:09] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0911-meeting_summary.txt fix the FIXME parts, me blobs to shower
[23:15:10] <yngwin> yes, ok
[23:15:10] <wired> alright
[23:15:15] <wired> yngwin: its up to you, next meeting
[23:15:17] <ayoy> let's continue this topic on ML! :D
[23:15:19] <ayoy> yay!
[23:15:31] <wired> wait!
[23:15:35] <wired> you all FREEZE!
[23:15:40] <tampakrap_> wut?
[23:15:45] <yngwin> i'll think about it, and we can discuss it again later, ok?
[23:15:48] <wired> lets discuss our project page a bit
[23:15:50] <wired> yngwin: OK
[23:15:50] <spatz> don't forget do update your qting-edge/.git/config to new pushurls :D
[23:15:52] * PSYCHO___ does the squeek sound with his duck
[23:16:05] <ayoy> spatz: send a mail to qt@ about it
[23:16:07] <yngwin> can somebody shut up that PSYCHO?
[23:16:10] <wired> lol
[23:16:14] <PSYCHO___> he said freeze
[23:16:29] <yngwin> if you need to go, you can go
[23:16:44] <wired> i wrote up a first version, but I'd like feedback from all of you
[23:16:49] <wired> stuff that should be there
[23:16:51] <wired> stuff that should go
[23:17:06] <spatz> we can continue discussing this after the meeting, we don't need to hold everybody up
[23:17:11] <yngwin> i do want to ask qt devs if thet would prefer a separate meeting, as these combined meetings take long
[23:17:19] <ayoy> ++
[23:17:19] <tampakrap_> no
[23:17:22] <ayoy> YES
[23:17:34] <wired> if
[23:17:38] <wired> we keep it to 2-3 hours combined
[23:17:40] <wired> im fine
[23:17:44] <tampakrap_> issues concern both teams usually
[23:17:45] <ayoy> a pity is that half of the team will have just 2 meetings
[23:17:47] <ayoy> kde and qt one
[23:18:06] <wired> tampakrap++ 
[23:18:28] <yngwin> i'll write a mail to kde@ and qt@ and we can discuss it then
[23:18:38] <tampakrap_> or just desktop
[23:18:40] <ayoy> if we started at 18 UTC or started with Qt stuff I'd be fine
[23:18:42] <mrpouet> btw, okay to import my patch in phonon ? :]
[23:18:43] <tampakrap_> desktop mailing list
[23:18:54] <wired> mrpouet: good morning!
[23:19:11] <yngwin> i'm not sure everyone is on desktop ml
[23:19:11] *** Quits: ayoy (n=ayoy@gentoo/developer/ayoy) (Remote closed the connection)
[23:19:19] <tampakrap_> should be
[23:19:19] <mrpouet> wired: did you smoke something ? 
[23:19:24] *** Joins: ayoy (n=ayoy@cs78245237.pp.htv.fi)
[23:19:30] <wired> mrpouet: lol no i don't smoke ;) 
[23:19:45] <mrpouet> :p
[23:19:48] <tampakrap_> have to go bye
[23:19:50] <ayoy> :/
[23:19:52] <ayoy> bai
[23:19:57] <yngwin> bye tampakrap_
[23:20:00] <wired> cya
[23:20:04] *** Quits: tampakrap_ (n=tampakra@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) (Remote closed the connection)
[23:20:07] <mrpouet> wired: what your sentence has to do with my question ? :D
[23:20:07] <yngwin> we're wrapping up anyway
[23:20:31] <yngwin> wired: good job on the project page, I'm sure there will be improvements/additions over time
[23:20:33] <wired> mrpouet: i asked you to talk about your issue a while back but you didn't respond :P
[23:20:57] * mrpouet has a girl-friend :(
[23:21:01] <wired> yngwin: indeed. thanks
[23:21:11] <mrpouet> a girl friend is boring you know.. :D
[23:21:17] <wired> mrpouet: so do I, but now its sacred... errr meeting time!
[23:21:28] <ayoy> lol
[23:21:43] <mrpouet> wired: aaarfff I know !! :(
[23:22:28] <wired> i think we can wrap this up now
[23:22:28] <wired> :p
[23:22:38] <yngwin> ok, last call
[23:22:40] <wired> mrpouet: tell em about your patch
[23:22:45] <wired> before they all leave
[23:22:45] <wired> :p
[23:22:51] * mrpouet setups a sighandler for SIGGIRL-FRIEND
[23:23:02] <ayoy> ...
[23:23:09] <mrpouet> ohhh better
[23:23:15] <mrpouet> ignore signal :D
[23:23:23] <mrpouet> ==> [ ] 
[23:23:25] <mrpouet> ^^
[23:23:27] <yngwin> mrpouet: you have 2 minutes
[23:23:58] <wired> 30s gone
[23:24:07] <mrpouet> okay so, I wrote a patch in order to add a support for external subtitles (files)
[23:24:07] <ayoy> lalala
[23:24:39] <mrpouet> it works just fine, sandsmark approved it (on upstream)
[23:24:56] <mrpouet> it would be nice then to patch kaffeine&dragon
[23:25:10] <mrpouet> but before we need to import my patch in phonon
[23:25:24] <mrpouet> see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213710
[23:25:31] <yngwin> m-s/phonon or qt-phonon or both?
[23:25:33] <mrpouet> for technical details
[23:25:40] <mrpouet> yngwin: m-s/phonon
[23:25:46] <yngwin> ok
[23:26:35] <mrpouet> currently we can :  auto-detect patch (recursively in the media directory), load a patch manually, setting up the subtitle encoding
[23:26:47] <mrpouet> rrraaahhh !!!! fucking shit !!!
[23:26:57] <mrpouet> auto-detect subs *
[23:27:03] <wired> lol
[23:27:06] <mrpouet> s/patch/subs
[23:27:08] <mrpouet> o_O
[23:27:15] * mrpouet stabs himself
[23:27:39] <wired> you're putting quite a show 
[23:27:47] <wired> :D
[23:27:50] <mrpouet> :D
[23:27:51] <yngwin> looks to me the patch has merit, but i'm not kde herd, and i think PSYCHO___ has left 
[23:28:02] <wired> the patch work
[23:28:02] <wired> s
[23:28:08] <wired> pretty well
[23:28:12] <mrpouet> :)
[23:28:12] * wired tested it
[23:28:30] <yngwin> so i suggest you open a bug and poke kde team
[23:29:34] <mrpouet> there is already a bug :)
[23:29:36] <yngwin> ok, meeting closed
[23:29:38] <yngwin> -------------------------------------